Six Weeks To Fitness

Dr. Francoise Sidime is a neuroscientist and assistant professor at the College of Staten Island, Helene Fuld School of Nursing and Wagner College. She obtained her PhD in neuroscience at the Graduate Center CUNY in New York. Francoise currently lectures and teaches extensive skills employed in the field of biology and neuroscience. Francoise is also the founder and president of Ekarus Global Science, a program dedicated to providing academic advancements, mentorship, and research opportunities to high school students in the STEM discipline. Dr. Sidime is also the co-founder of a sister company called PreMedPro, a program that offers pre-med high school students training skills in the field of medicine.

Vince Ferguson:

Before we get started discussing your research into autism, tell my listeners what inspired you to go into the medical field and become a neuroscientist.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So, there were several reasons, but the one that actually sticks out was my mentor. At the time, when I was trying to pursue a medical career, we were all required to basically do research in labs because that's part of the requirement in order to get into medical school. So, when I went and I worked with my mentor, he did a lot of work in neuroscience and he had extensive knowledge and just really, really well-versed in the subjects. As a result, I admired everything that he was doing and the work he was working on. As a result, I felt that that's where I should be. Of course, when I started to operate on brains, opening them up and seeing all these intricate structures, I knew there was no turning back at that point.

Vince Ferguson:

At that point you were hooked?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Oh, I was hooked after that. Yes, that was it. That was it.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. So, how did you get involved with autism?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So my mentor, that was a field that he was actually working on. So, his mentor prior to that worked with him when he was a PhD and a post-doctoral student. So they worked on different areas, Fragile X. And so he continued working on autism as well. When I came into the lab as his student... This particular mentor, by the way, has a name. His name is Dr. Abdeslem El Idrissi. So, when I started working in his laboratory, I found that he was working a lot on autism cases. As a result, I ended up jumping on those topics as well and I realized I liked them a lot, and that's how I got involved in the research as well.

Vince Ferguson:

Okay. Well, did you get involved in any particular area of autism?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Yes. So, the particular area that we actually focus on is called the Fragile X. So, because autism has a vast spectrum, as most people know, they particularly worked on a single area, which is on the Fragile X. It's called the Fragile X syndrome. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Fragile X?

Vince Ferguson:

No.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

No. Okay. So, they worked on the Fragile X syndrome and the thing about the Fragile X is that, because autism is very vast and there's so many areas that could be contributing to that particular disorder of autism, one of the things about the Fragile X is that you can actually pinpoint exactly where the issue is, and that issue usually is on the X-chromosome. So, there's an area there that's very fragile and it looks like an arm that's basically broken, and that area has this gene, which is called the FMR1 gene. That gene is basically silent. As a result, when this gene is silent, it means that whatever that gene is responsible for, it will not do. So, that area is going to have issues, of course. So, some of the symptoms you see when this gene is silent, that patients have anxiety, hyperactivity, depression. They have increased sensitivity to epileptic type of seizures.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

As a result, you can really pinpoint that, "Okay, this part is silent so it's missing. This is what we see." So, it made it very easy to pinpoint where the issues are basically happening when you focus on this one particular niche, and that's what we actually did, so we focused on the Fragile X.

Vince Ferguson:

Sounds very interesting to me, as a layman. Wow. It really does. Now, your research has looked at phthalates or plasticizers and how it can cause neural behavioral abnormalities, similar to what is seen in individuals on the autism spectrum. Can you tell my listeners what phthalates are and why are they of concern?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Sure, absolutely. Right now phthalates, they're actually a huge hot topic, especially in the news. So, phthalates are plasticizers, and they're used to basically soften plastics. So, an example of a common phthalate that most people are aware of is bisphenol A, which is normally abbreviated as BPA, and this is the plasticizer that's sometimes used in baby bottles. So, there's a lot of commercials that say, "Oh, we're selling BPA-free bottles for babies." So, the phthalate we worked with, obviously it's in the same family, and this phthalate was called DBP, and that's dibutyl phthalate. This phthalate is an organic solvent, and this phthalate is used basically to mold a lot of plastics. So, plastic bottles like Poland Spring bottles, for example, toys, plastic plates, hospital supplies like catheters and tubing. They tends to use a lot of this DBP to basically help to mold it.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Now, the concern with these phthalates basically, like DBP, is that they're not stable, especially when you subject them to high temperatures. So what do I mean by high temperatures? These would be extreme conditions, like if you leave a plastic bottle with water and it's outside, for example, or if you heat up food on a plastic plate in the microwave. So, what happens is that that DBP becomes destabilized because it's actually in the plastic, so it becomes destabilized, and as a result, it leaches out of the plastic and into the environment. Now, in this case, the environment would be the water that you're consuming or the food that's basically on your plate. So, the reason why we picked DBP over BPA, bisphenol A, because there were a couple of studies that were done in 2000 and they found that there were high levels of DBP that were found in urine of the general population. So, that's why we focused on this particular phthalate.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. That sounds amazing to me, because again, you talked about the microwave. So many of us have used microwave ovens to heat up our food.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Yes. Especially because a lot of food is delivered in plastic Tupperware, it's so much easier to throw that food in the microwave and eat immediately as such. Most people feel very lazy taking it out and basically putting it on a glass plate or ceramic plate. So, you could see how this could also be a problem.

Vince Ferguson:

Is it more of a problem for younger people or for adults?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Well, that's a very interesting question. So, what we did when we basically looked at our studies, we wanted to see, does it affect adults? Which generation does it affect more? So, some of the data that we basically got were different because when you become an adult, your brain has already been formed. So, what we found was that DBP would cause individuals to become sterile. So, it created different types of problems compared to a child. Well, maybe I shouldn't use a child. I should use mice because we did the study in mice. So, the offspring of mice basically exhibited behavior alterations that were similar to autism when they were exposed to this DBP. So, if you basically get exposed to it early on in development and your brain hasn't formed, then there's a possibility that you'd have these symptoms that may be related closer to autism.

Vince Ferguson:

And you guys used mice as an example.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

That's right. So, the reason why we use mice it's because their bodies are similar. So, their anatomy is pretty similar to ours. The structures inside their organs are similar to ours. So, of course you won't go ahead and do these studies on humans because I mean, that could be dangerous. So, as a result, we did them on mice. So, what we did was we took pregnant mice and we targeted a particular window. That window was around, I think, gestational day 10 to 20, because that particular window is when the brain of the pups in the womb of the pregnant mouse, their neurons starts to connect.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

As a result, we wanted to make sure that we gave that injection of DBP prior to their neuronal networks being formed so we could see, does this DBP really affect neuronal connections? And when they do get exposed to that DBP, what happens later on when they become grownups when we have to run studies on them? How are they going to behave? What's going to happen to some of the key proteins in their brains? So, that's what we were actually investigating.

Vince Ferguson:

So, what were your findings?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So, what we did, of course, as I said, we injected the mice and we waited until they were born. What we did was we looked at their brains at different time points. At first natal day one, when they were just born on day one, day seven, and then also at two months of age, just to see where the changes were occurring. Behavior-wise, what we noticed basically was that their brains, basically, the way the neuro behavior was similar to what we see in autism. So, we did a couple of tests because when you're dealing with mice, you run different types of tests to see, how are they behaving? How do you see hyperactivity and anxiety and so on and so forth? So, what we found was that they had increased locomotive activity. They were extremely hyper. They had anxiety. When we did a learning and memory test, they had decreased in this test.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So, in the test, you could teach them a couple of things and later on, they wouldn't remember. Also, they had a reduction in social interaction, meaning that when you presented... So, normally mice are curious. When you give them a new mouse, a stranger mouse, they will play with that mouse because they're trying to figure out who this mouse is. But when they were exposed to DBP early, they weren't really interacting. They would just sit in the corner. They won't socialize. So, the symptoms that we were obviously observing were consistent with the fact that they had this altered inhibitory system in their brain, or what we call the GABAergic system as well was actually affected.  And then what we did also after that... So, we noticed the behavior. So we wanted to see, well, the proteins that are responsible for making sure these behaviors are intact, what's going on with them? So, when we looked at them, we found that they were significantly down-regulated, meaning that the expression of them were less or they were basically affected as well.

Vince Ferguson:

That's amazing. Would you say that genetics play any part when it comes to autism in children?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Absolutely. I think it's basically both of them, environmental factors and genetics as well. Just like the way I've just mentioned, the Fragile X, so that's the particular area on the X chromosome that's affected. That would be genetics. And then obviously environmental, it would be something like dibutyl phthalate being exposed to the pregnant mother, for example, and then the child getting exposed to this DBP or dibutyl phthalate. So, it's definitely an interplay between both genetics and environmental factors.

Vince Ferguson:

Based on this study, you can safely say that humans should also be mindful of what we're putting in the microwave when it comes to heating up our food.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Absolutely. I mean, definitely we haven't run these studies in humans, but as I said, the anatomy of mice is very, very similar to the anatomy of humans. So, I would say one should be mindful of not heating up food on plastic plates. The other point that I would like to bring up while we're in that, because you just brought up a very good point, is that this DBP doesn't only penetrate our bodies orally. It could also go through the skin and inhalation as well. The reasons why we did these studies in low levels, because we wanted to see, because most people are not living by factories where you're making huge amounts of plastics, so how would these individuals get this DBP? So, clearly they have to be off low levels. So, what we also found is that, according to our research, is that DBP is used as a solvent as well.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

It basically helps to make makeup, especially for young women, right? Because young women are using a lot of makeup in their young age bearing childbearing years. So, they use makeup and as a result, if there's DBP in it, it has a potential to cross the skin, cross the placenta, and then target an unborn baby. Because the molecule itself is hydrophobic, and therefore it can cross very, very easily through all these areas and target the baby. So, we did some studies just looking to see, well, if the mother was exposed to DBP, how much of that does the mother get in her brain versus how much the child gets or the pup gets? What we found was that the mother does get significant amounts in her brain, but definitely that DBP did cross the placenta and it does go to the brain itself as well. So, that was proof that it actually does reach the brain of these pups, the mice.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. So, how would someone know that there's DBP in the product that they're using? Is it in their ingredients?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

It should be listed. Right now, I believe by law, they should be listing whether products have DBP in there or not. That's why the baby bottles will say BPA-free. But most of the time, like when I buy my nail polish, for example, I always look for nail polish that says DBP-free so that it doesn't have it in there. The only thing is that I don't know what the rules and regulations are here in the United States, because I know that they're very slow in implementing some of these policies to stop DBP from being used as a solvent. I know in Europe, a lot of them have started to ban DBP as part of a solvent in terms of softening these plastics. But I think the U.S. hasn't quite gotten there yet, but hopefully eventually they will get there where they can ban this DBP from being used, and try and use alternatives that they can, just like what they're doing with the BPA, to see how they can soften plastic in a very different way.

Vince Ferguson:

Most definitely. This is very important. I can stay on this topic for a little longer, but we don't have that much time. Thank you.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Sure.

Vince Ferguson:

But also, I understand you are awarded the Marshall Plan Scholarship to conduct research in Austria at one of the hospitals in a town called Graz. Can you tell my listeners about that experience doing research abroad and also outside of the United States?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Yes. That was a phenomenal experience because you do all your research here in the United States, and you're always curious, and you're always wondering, "Well, how are things done elsewhere, abroad? Is it the same? Do they follow the same paradigms?" Because obviously the way that we get to graduate school and the way we apply with our GREs and the process is a little bit different than it is in Europe. So, I was really curious to see how this is actually done abroad. So, I did go to Austria first in 2011 to conduct research. At that time I was working with a team that were collaborating with seven EU countries on a project called biothane. So, they were looking at how food would affect the kidneys, and I was part of that team. And then a year later, I basically secured a scholarship to return back to Austria and work with another team, an amazing team in that same hospital in Graz and what they were working on was the brain.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

They were looking at the brain kidney axis and seeing how contrast media, this is the media that's used when you're doing a scan, like if you want to scan the kidney, for example, you'd use a contrast, so they were looking to see whether that's safe for the kidneys and is the kidney basically excreted that contrast without being harmed. I learned a lot because I moved, it opened me up to other areas instead of just focusing on the brain, but looking at how the brain can work with other areas as well and other organs in the periphery. So, yeah, as a result, I was really impressed with that time when I was over there, that I decided I could come back here and encourage other students in the university to also try and apply for that scholarship so they could have the same experience and opportunity that I had.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. We're going to talk about that a little later on, but how long did you stay in Austria?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So, I spent my summers there. So, the first, 2011, I spent about three, three and a half months. And then the following year, I also spent about that time as well, because I was still working on my research work back in the States. So, I couldn't stay out there longer than that.

Vince Ferguson:

Very nice. Good experience though, I would say, right?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Phenomenal. Yes. Really, really phenomenal experience.

Vince Ferguson:

Now, some of your other lab work has looked at the amino acid taurine and how that can reduce plasma glucose levels. Can this be a potential aid for those with diabetes?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So, taurine's a great amino acid. Some people heard of it's been added to Red Bull, right?

Vince Ferguson:

Yes.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

People drink Red Bull, but most of the time they don't normally explain what the taurine actually does. But the thing with taurine is that it's a sulfur containing amino acid, and it's one of the most abundant free amino acids in many of our excitable tissues in our brain, skeletal muscles and cardiac muscles. One of the things about taurine, it's actually been important to prevent age-dependent decline of cognitive function. So, as a result, it's been shown and proven that when there's reduced taurine, and they've looked at that in mice that have a knockout for one of the steps that makes taurine, right? Because I'm trying to keep this very much in layman's terms and not use all of these fancy words.

Vince Ferguson:

Please, please, please. Thank you.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So, when there's a reduction in taurine in mice, they've been reported to show severe functional histopathology in the visual system, skeletal system, the heart, the pancreas and the brain. But if you increase supplementation that's shown increased benefits acting through the same organs as well. So, what we wanted to do was we wanted to look and see what would happen if we gave our mice taurine. So, we had two groups of mice, one that weren't fed taurine chronically for two months and then the others that were. We wanted to see how would they deal with glucose or diabetes. So, what we did was that we injected both groups of mice, ones that had taurine and the other ones that didn't have taurine, with a glucose shot. It's called a glucose tolerance test.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Basically we wanted to see what the results would be. So, what we found basically was that the mice that were not fed with taurine were not able to handle the glucose very well. So, they started to have huge spikes in their plasma glucose levels about 30 minutes into the test. Where the mice that were fed with taurine, they gradually increased, but not to the level that the mice that were not fed with taurine got to, and they were hypoglycemic, closer to baseline levels through the entire two hours of the test that we conducted. So, these were great findings that we found. So, I'm hoping that at some point this would be work that we could look at in humans and see whether we could get the same findings as well, because again, most of our findings are being conducted in mice.

Vince Ferguson:

Based on these findings, would you advise individuals to take taurine?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So, yeah, that's an interesting question. So, there was an individual that I knew that used to take taurine and consume it. He would state that, "You can use me as an example when you present your lab work because I'm living proof that taurine actually works. I'm a walking specimen." He used to have tremors, and he mentioned to me that when he took taurine, basically these tremors were reduced. Now, I think that's amazing. However, I can't give that type of medical advice nor am I allowed to, because we do our studies in mice. Most of these studies that we do in the lab, of course, like in any laboratory there's series of steps that one has to take. You do studies in mice before you move on to humans and you have a board that basically approves these different steps. But I'm hoping that, depending on how far this research goes, that maybe one day we try out human trials. That's something that I'd have to speak with my still current mentor, because I still work with him, Dr. El Idrissi.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

But the exciting thing is that we're part of a taurine society. It's called the Taurine Society, and we're part of a team that, every two years, we meet up to look and see what the benefits of taurine in research, and we share our data. So, we go to different countries around the world every two years, and we share our data. So, hopefully yes, that this one day would take place where we actually do some human trials.

Vince Ferguson:

Yeah. Because I know that taurine is also available in certain foods, right?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Yes. So, some foods will actually add taurine into their food because they believe that when you give it, it has benefits. But what we also found with taurine is that when you give it for a short period of time, we see the benefits. But what tends to happen if you give it chronically for too long, then the reverse happens. So, the mechanism changes. So, that's why it's important to investigate this further because chronically the mechanism is different from when you give it acutely for a short period of time. That's why I wouldn't be comfortable to recommend and tell anyone right now, because of the studies that we're running, that this is exactly what one should be doing as a human, and I'm not licensed to do that anyway.

Vince Ferguson:

Right. Right. Okay. So, I won't mention that you recommend this to everybody, so my listeners don't go out there and run out there and get a run on the taurine market. We'll stay away from that.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Yeah. For the meantime, until we've ironed out all the kinks, if any.

Vince Ferguson:

Yeah. Well, let me know, okay? Please. I want to know.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Absolutely. Absolutely. For sure.

Vince Ferguson:

Now, you are also the founder and president of Ekarus Global Science and the co-founder of PreMedPro. Are these charitable organizations?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Well, I could call them charitable because I know it's not a nonprofit because I haven't been getting funds for it. So, this is something that I started because I saw the need for programs like this because at the college level, I was part of a minority program. Well, it was a program that was substantially increasing the number of underrepresented individuals in the STEM discipline. This program was called the LSM Program, and this was founded by Louis Stokes. So, it was called the Louis Stokes Alliance for Minority Participation. What that program did for me was wonders, because it basically paid for my Master's at the time when I was taking my Master's and it made pretty much all of us who were in that program do extensive research, go and publish and not focus on working, but focus on our education.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

As a result, I realized the importance of programs like this. So, I wanted to start something at a high school level because I felt it's always good to grab the students while their minds are still young and we can still mold them. I figured that's the perfect time. I like to work with underrepresented students because sometimes we don't have the mentorships that other groups may be lucky to have. I've used my previous experience and said, "Well, it's important to set up something like this." So Ekarus focuses on exposing students to research at the college level, because it's much more... How can I put it? It's definitely of a higher level than you would do at the high school level, because some of the techniques that we use or we teach the students are very different. As a result, it makes them extremely competitive when they apply to schools out there, like colleges or even prestigious colleges.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Now, I didn't only want to stay within only doing the research component, so I also wanted to help medical students, so that's how PreMedPro came about as well. I was working with my colleague, Dr. Christine Bishara, and we decided that that would be something great, where we could bring in research and medical type of guidance to young students who may be interested. Bottom line is that when you expose students early on to touching the microscope or teaching them how to use a stethoscope or using a blood pressure cuff or machine, students get to feel what it's like to be in these particular fields and then they don't think that they're so far off. Also, when they see individuals like yourself, maybe they see a minority, a female wearing a lab coat, it doesn't look foreign and they could say, "This is something I would like to be, and I know it's possible because if she could do it, so can I."

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. Love it. Love it. Love it.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Thank you.

Vince Ferguson:

Really, role models are so important. Mentors, mentorship is so important and that's what you're doing.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Absolutely.

Vince Ferguson:

It's great.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

It happened to me. I've had great mentors. The process itself is very vigorous to get into, and that guidance is key because those mentors have walked that journey. They know what it takes. They know when these deadlines are. So, it's important that you also teach the younger generation that's coming about that these are the deadlines, so this is how you have to be vigorous. You have to start off in college with a 4.0 GPA and try and keep it at a 4.0, so you don't ruin your chances of trying to get into medical school, for example.

Vince Ferguson:

Do students working with Ekarus get the opportunity to conduct research abroad?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Yes. So, one of the things that we started with some of my mentors... So, there's one mentor I haven't mentioned who was part of the LSM program, Dr. Claude Brathwaite, who played a huge role as well in my journey in becoming a neuroscientist. So, he started the Global CUNY project that allowed college students to basically go abroad and do research. What we decided was we could expand that and start doing it in different parts of the world, of course. So, I thought that this would be great for Ekarus as well, if the high school students are able to do that, where they can go abroad as well and do research. So, some of the countries... My mentor, Dr. Abdeslem El Idrissi, from Morocco, so we usually send students to Morocco to do research out there.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

We allow them to also experience the culture by going to cities like Casablanca, Fez, Taounate, for example. So, as a result, this is how I decided that high school students also should be given that opportunity to go abroad and start doing the research. Because if they're doing it here in the States, then there's no difference if they can do it abroad as well.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. That is so amazing. That is so powerful. I really appreciate-

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Thank you.

Vince Ferguson:

Yes. What you're doing is awesome, and I actually have more questions, but I'm not going to ask them because I'll be on here for hours with you, Dr. Sidime.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

No problem.

Vince Ferguson:

But where can my listeners find out more about you and your work?

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

So, I have a website www.ekarus.com. That's spelled E-K-A-R-U-S.com. So if you go there, you'll be able to see information about Ekarus, and also the PreMedPro as well. If you go to www.premedpro.com, that also will lead you to the medical part for the high school students. I'm also on Instagram as well, and the Instagram handle is @ekarusglobalscience. So again, spelled Ekarus the same way, global science, all one word. So, we're on Instagram as well. When they go on, they'll be able to see young high school students like themselves, minorities as well, conducting research in a lab, presenting their research, doing dissections, so that they can get a feel. And also speaking as well because they teach other students what they're doing in the lab as well, so that they can get insights on what's actually happening at Ekarus.

Vince Ferguson:

Dr. Francoise Sidime, on behalf of Body Sculpt of New York and Six Weeks to Fitness, I truly want to thank you for coming on my show today.

Dr. Francoise Sidime:

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. The honor is really mine. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Vince Ferguson:

To my readers and listeners, I truly hope this program was informative, encouraging, and inspiring, and that you will continue tuning in to our Six Weeks to Fitness podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for the show, please leave them on my Six Weeks to Fitness blog at www.sixweekstofitness.com or email me at vince@sixweeks.com, and please don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.

Direct download: Episode_164_Dr._Francoise_Sidime.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 12:47pm EDT

Brett Larkin is the founder of Uplifted Yoga, an online yoga and meditation community, empowering students to personalize their practice and ignite their best life on and off the mat. She's instructed at top studios, companies like Google and Pinterest, and leads the world's most interactive online yoga teacher training programs. She teaches to a social media following of over 400,000 people. Her content on YouTube is streamed for three million minutes each month.  Brett, how are you today?

Brett Larkin:

I'm well, thanks so much for having me. Excited to be here.

Vincent Ferguson:

Well, thank you for taking time out from your busy schedule to be here today. But before we talk about your company, Uplifted Yoga, tell my listeners more about your personal journey into health and wellness. Where did it all begin for Brett Larkin?

Brett Larkin:

I'm someone who has suffered a lot of anxiety, especially in my late teens and early 20s. I felt panicked all the time for no reason. It's hard for me to even really remember back on that period of my life, because I can't even remember how I was functioning, honestly. And for me, yoga ultimately became this doorway that led to a completely different experience of reality, where I was able to be fully present, let go of a lot of the fears and negative predictions, and kind of figure out how my mind had been patterned since I was really young and kind of rewrite a new narrative for myself. So for me, it's been very much both a physical practice, but also something that really changed the way I see the world. There's so much rich philosophy in this practice as well for those who are interested in that.

Vincent Ferguson:

So what was it about yoga that attracted you to that type of training?

Brett Larkin:

Well, it's interesting because I was a big naysayer of yoga, maybe like some of your listeners.

Vincent Ferguson:

Okay.

Brett Larkin:

As a child, I was a ballet dancer. I was very into kind of hardcore dance and very intense training. So I always thought yoga was sort of for losers who just wanted to stretch and sing, and I kind of naysay the whole thing, but then I had a dance injury and I started exploring Pilates. And I had a boyfriend at the time who said, "Hey, this is interesting. You are really into Pilates." And he and I have been kind of dabbling in a little bit of meditation. "So, Pilates and meditation, why don't we try yoga? That would be really great for you. It makes a lot of sense." But I was like, "Absolutely not. That's for weak people. I'm super strong, I'm a dancer." But he kind of encouraged me to go.

Brett Larkin:

And so, my first yoga experience was with Bikram yoga, which some of your listeners may be familiar with or have done, it's super hot, I think it's 105 degrees or more room to do a set of postures. There's a mirror so you can really analyze your form and it's a very intense experience. And so, that actually was the yoga that resonated with me the most at first, because it was kind of the most familiar to me in that it felt like a really intense dance or training experience type of class with the mirror and everything. So that was sort of my gateway, my first yoga experience.

Brett Larkin:

So it was very much about the physical and the sweat and everyone's different and is going to find a different style of yoga that meets you where you are in this moment. So I always really encourage people, don't write off yoga like I did until you try a lot of different styles because there's so many flavors out there. More than I think people are even aware of. And of course, that first Bikram journey led to then a much deeper exploration where I ended up eventually trying every style and studying with every school and it spurred a whole exploration from there, but that was my initial starting point.

Vincent Ferguson:

Bikram yoga. Wow.

Brett Larkin:

Yeah.

Vincent Ferguson:

Every time I hear it, I cringe, because I know it's very hot.

Brett Larkin:

It's so hot. It's funny because I mean, I haven't done Bikram yoga now in probably 10 years, but that was my entry point. So that's another thing I encourage people to be open to is the style of yoga you start with, or that you might be attracted to initially might not be the one you end up sticking with long-term. So it's important to have an open mind and kind of be ready to go on the journey.

Vincent Ferguson:

And I was going to ask you what type of yoga would you recommend for a beginner to try? Because I think if someone exposed me to Bikram yoga right away, that would have turned me off completely.

Brett Larkin:

Right. So my recommendation as strange as it sounds, would be to do a lot of experimentation. I think one of the things I see happen a lot is someone will go to the yoga studio closest to their house, or they'll do one YouTube video routine. And if they don't like it, they kind of just write off yoga as a whole, which would kind of be like writing off speaking when you've only sampled one language. Think about how many languages there are in our world and dialects and things. So I really, really encourage people to kind of approach it like you'd approach finding a mate. You're going to date a bunch of different people and sometimes it's going to work out and sometimes it's not and you just want to have fun. So, to kind of sample a lot of different styles... And I actually have a little challenge on my YouTube, where it's called “Find Your Style.”

Brett Larkin:

And I introduce people to five different styles over five days, because that was one of the things that I saw really prevented people from enjoying this practice. They just kind of have one impression of it and then think that was the whole story. When really, there's Restorative, there's Vinyasa, there's Hatha. Even within that Hatha word, there's Ashtanga, there's gentle yoga. There's Viniyoga. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. So I really believe there's something for everyone. And I think you need to really think about who you are, what your background is.

Brett Larkin:

If you're more that intense athlete person like I was, trying to do yin or gentle yoga, it's probably just going to be too far from where you are right now to maybe appreciate it. So you might want to start with a more athletic style, like Bikram or Ashtanga. If you're someone who has no fitness background whatsoever, those styles are going to be insane, right? You might want to start with yin, or even restorative yoga, or something very beginner gentle hatha, just to kind of gently get your body moving. So it's really like a dating game, I guess. Date all the styles of yoga. Try all the teachers in your area.

Vincent Ferguson:

I like that.

Brett Larkin:

Yeah. That's my biggest tip for everyone.

Vincent Ferguson:

Great tip. I like that advice, I truly do. Now, would you say that yoga is a lifestyle or just a way to exercise and meditate?

Brett Larkin:

Oh, that's such a loaded question. It's so interesting because when we look back at a lot of the ancient texts, what we see is that yoga was being written about as a means to achieve enlightenment. Right? Or a means to connect to whatever is beyond this plane of consciousness that we live in. And that the physical postures and the breath are all kind of a tool, a medium for that bigger aim. And then over the years, a lot of the physical piece of yoga got fused with a lot of the aerobics movement that was happening in the 70s and 80s. And there's sort of a modern yoga that's emerged that's in many ways quite different than what we see displayed in the yoga sutras or the hatha yoga pradipika or something like that.

Brett Larkin:

So, it's really what I think, is it's what you want to take out of it. If you just want to use yoga to improve your breathing and just really think of it as a breathing practice or a mindfulness practice that helps with stress reduction, you can view it through that lens by putting on that pair of glasses and looking at the body of work that is yoga through that framework. And there's so many great mindfulness-based programs or anxiety reduction programs, many that have huge scientific studies from major universities behind them now.

Brett Larkin:

For other people, right, you might be actually drawn to yoga because of the spiritual side of it. Right? You're kind of resonating with maybe the chanting or what's called Bhakti yoga, the yoga of devotion. You're looking to connect to something bigger, and that's available too. Then others are more, I just want to use this for cross training. Right? This is something that is going to improve my overall fitness and they're more focused on the postures. So it's kind of this buffet where again, finding the right teacher and the right style is so important because different styles bring in more, like Kundalini yoga, for example, which I do a lot of now is pulling in a ton of the chanting, the spirituality, all those things. So if someone's not interested in that, that's not going to be the right style for them right now. Right?

Brett Larkin:

So it's a buffet. And so I think you can make it a lifestyle, you can make it a religion if you want to, or you can really just see it as something like Pilates or breath work that is helping whether it's cross training or helping with anxiety. Pull out what works for you and try not to label the practice as a whole.

Vincent Ferguson:

So, basically yoga can be mental, spiritual, or physical.

Brett Larkin:

Yeah. And I think in its most beautiful form, it's all three, but that's not always... People aren't always either ready or wanting that. In which case you can completely divide it up. And like I said, it's like a buffet. Just take what works for you and leave the rest.

Vincent Ferguson:

Huh. Again, excellent advice. Now, do you associate yoga with Hinduism?

Brett Larkin:

Well, that goes back to a little bit what we talked about earlier, where, when we look at the origins of yoga, it did develop in India, Southeast Asia and these countries later, much, much later than when the yoga texts were written by the Brahmin sages. Much, much later, these are areas of the world that developed into different religions. Right? We see Buddhism, we see Hinduism, but most of the yoga texts, and I'm not as much an expert on this as some people like some of my teachers, but they predate a lot of what these religions look like now in the modern world. So, I think you can practice yoga without dabbling in Hinduism at all. For those that are interested in those connections, there are certain texts and gods and goddesses and chants where you can forge that connection. So again, it's really up to you.

Brett Larkin:

Again, I think the biggest maybe thing that I hope to share is yoga as a word, what does that even mean anymore? Right? It almost... It's like if we took a word like aerobic exercise, I mean, there's so many different forms of how that looks. A long time ago, we probably didn't even need to do it because we were hunter gatherers and running around all the time and then it emerged and it looked like fencing or something. And then it changed. And then it looked like a gym or kind of some of the stuff we see now. It's the same with yoga. Even the way yoga was practiced in the ancient times was so different depending on what region it was practiced in. For example, up in the Himalayas originally, where people were relatively safe, they were up in the mountains, cave dwelling, they practiced a very meditative type of yoga that was focused more on kind of the spiritual aspects and seated meditation.

Brett Larkin:

If we look at people who were living more at the border where the Mongols were at these times, thousands and thousands of years ago, their yoga was much more like what we see as Ashtanga yoga today. Very athletic because the military was actually doing it. It was training for them because they lived in a place where war was constantly breaking out and they needed to defend themselves. So even when we go way back in time, it's not like there's one style or one definition of what these practices are. It was very much variable based on people's kind of lifestyle and what, again, they needed to take out of the practice or what made sense to take out of the practice. I don't know if that's helpful to think about, but-

Vincent Ferguson:

It is, it is.

Brett Larkin:

It's a broad perspective. Keep a broad perspective is what I say.

Vincent Ferguson:

Amazing. Yes. So it's not just one piece, it's a broad potpourri or whatever they call it. You know what I'm saying?

Brett Larkin:

Yeah, exactly.

Vincent Ferguson:

Now in yoga, you often do you often hear the word chakra.

Brett Larkin:

Chakra, yes.

Vincent Ferguson:

Yes. What are they and how do they affect our daily lives?

Brett Larkin:

So chakra is, I think of them as programs, they're considered energy centers. So, some of your listeners may be familiar with traditional Chinese medicine or acupuncture, which is really mainstream now. I think most insurance even covers acupuncture. So, the Chinese medicine system, they work with these acupuncture... They call it meridians, right? These lines in the body. And the yogic system, instead of calling those channels meridians, they call them nadis. But it's the same thing. It's basically a pathway of energy in the body. So there's the heart meridian, the liver meridian, all these things. So the systems are the same, just using different words.

Brett Larkin:

And then in the yogic system, a chakra is where we see a lot of these meridians or nadis intersecting. So if you imagine a rotary in a busy street or town, right, where all the cars are coming together, all the roads are coming together in this big rotary. Those areas of the body get pulled out in the yogic philosophy as these energetic hubs. And the word chakra literally translates to wheel or disc. And I think of them as like a program, because each of them resides in a different area along your spine and sort of governs a different... Saying it's an area of your life is an oversimplification, but deals with a different realm of how you interact with the world.

Brett Larkin:

So for example, your root chakra at the very base of your spine is very much associated with your sense of safety. Your security. Are your needs being met? Are you getting enough food? Are you getting enough sleep? Things like that. While something like your throat chakra, which is obviously much higher up, is dealing with how well do you communicate? How well do you listen? Do you have trouble speaking up? Or are you kind of the over-boisterous type who doesn't let other people get a word in edgewise? Right? So each of us have these unique energy centers that are manifesting in different ways, that kind of result in how our life unfolds, right?

Brett Larkin:

So you might just be like, "Well, that's my personality. That's the way I am." But what yoga kind of teaches us is if you want to investigate these energy centers or work with them, you can kind of reprogram them. So just like when you sometimes get an update, I have an iPhone, but I think Android is the same. Every six months, there's a new operating system, right? Download the new system. So, we can be unaware of these energy centers and just operate the way we do. Or we can be like, "Hey, I want to rewrite my programming around safety and getting enough sleep. Or I want to rewrite how I act and give and receive love in relationships by working with my heart chakra."

Brett Larkin:

So it's just an opportunity to bring more awareness into your life. And then the beautiful thing about the chakra is you can work with them physically by doing Athena, you can work with them on a meditative level, on a spiritual level. So kind of like we talked about before, there's a lot of different ways you can tap into them. Or you can say, I'm not interested in the subtle body. This is, we're now in the realm of the subtle body of yoga. I just want to stay focused on the athleticism, the yogic postures. For those who don't resonate, they don't even have to go there. Right? It's kind of just this other layer of the practice that you can tap into if you choose to.

Vincent Ferguson:

I like it. I like it a lot. Can practicing a certain type of yoga, bring abundance into your life or the chakra bring abundance into your life?

Brett Larkin:

Oh, I definitely think so. Yes, yes, yes. I love working with this theme of abundance and abundance comes ultimately from gratitude. They're linked. So in order to attract abundance, we need to shift into feeling grateful and a sense of gratitude. So there's lots of wonderful practices that can help with that. There's classes on that specific theme. One of the biggest things that yoga helps with is just helping slow us down. So we can't be grateful if we're rushing or stressed. Or I don't know, maybe someone out there can be, but I know for me, when I'm rushing and stressed, I'm not in a state of gratitude or reverence. I'm usually not being very kind to my family members who are near me. So, counteracting that rushing and counteracting that stress and anxiety I think is so pivotal as a first step, to even allow someone to slow down. Right? Step into those feelings of, what am I grateful for?

Brett Larkin:

And what really separates yoga from all other forms of exercise is the focus on the breathing, the breath. So, no matter what style you use, if people are feeling overwhelmed listening to this, honestly it kind of doesn't matter because all the styles have this common thread of using the breath to calm the nervous system; to shift into what we call the parasympathetic nervous system, which is more of our rest and digest functions, instead of being always on kind of stressed out, orange alert, which is where we live most of our lives by default, just because of the way our society is set up and functions. So much is being asked of us, especially with technology, and we're bombarded with information.

Vincent Ferguson:

Yes, we are.

Brett Larkin:

So, that's the biggest thing. Just doing any kind of yoga, really doing the breathing. And if you commit to it, you'll see after most yoga classes you feel calmer. Right? You feel more grounded. You're feeling more in your whole body instead of just living up in your head with all your thoughts spinning. And that's usually how people are like, "Oh, I like this feeling," and how they end up coming back to classes.

Vincent Ferguson:

How do you find a good yoga instructor? What should you look for?

Brett Larkin:

It's a great question. I think someone who's talking a lot about the breath would be really important. I think someone who is constantly kind of challenging you to play, instead of saying the posture has to look just one way, kind of giving you a couple different options. That's what I really like and look for in instructors. So instead of it being really dogmatic and rigid, kind of being more about finding your personal edge, because a lot of these athena, these kind of an alphabet of the yoga postures are going to look different on different people. Right? Depending our height and our weight and our background and our prior athletic experience.

Brett Larkin:

So I think someone who's really encouraging you to explore rather than saying you have to get to this exact thing, is something that I would recommend looking for. Someone who's talking a lot about the breath. And then, honestly, just someone who resonates with you. That's the most important thing. We all are going to have different teachers who resonate with us at different points in our journey. So your job is again, to just kind of do that dating work I talked about and find the one who's going to meet you where you are right now.

Vincent Ferguson:

Yes, yes. That was really good. Now, Brett, you're not just another yoga teacher or instructor. You are what we call the gold or platinum standard, the creme de la creme of teachers. But from where and from whom did you get your training?

Brett Larkin:

So I studied with Alan Finger, who is such an incredible teacher. He was the original co-founder of Yoga Works, which is a huge yoga chain that some people may be familiar with. So he was the person I originally did my training with in New York, and he has just a wonderful background in Viniyoga, it's called. And he has a lot of knowledge about tantra, which isn't anything... You say tantra and people think like tantric sex and weird stuff. No, it's really a deep knowledge of the ancient yoga texts and philosophies. So I absolutely love his work. And Anodea Judith is another huge teacher of mine and inspiration. So she's kind of the world's authority on the chakra system. And she has a PhD. She's done a lot of work integrating the chakras into her work with patients as a psychotherapist.

Brett Larkin:

So, she is an incredible resource and has lots of books on the chakras for people who are interested. I love... Some of my other teachers Guru Singh, Kia Miller, Elena Brower. Different people again, who resonate with you at different moments. So I think it's really important to find that teacher who resonates with you and then learn as much as you can from them. Embody what they have to share, make it your own, and just keep building your own experience. So yeah, those are some of the people who've been highly influential for me.

Vincent Ferguson:

So everyone had someone to help them get to where they are today. Correct?

Brett Larkin:

Absolutely. And in the teacher training programs I run now, that's a lot of what we work on, right, is helping you find your own unique style, your own unique voice. Figuring out what different parts of this lineage and this practice you want to blend together. Do you want to teach something that's very spiritual or do you want to veer away from that? These are all choices that even as instructors, we end up needing to make. Yeah.

Vincent Ferguson:

I see. Now you call your business Uplifted.

Brett Larkin:

Yes.

Vincent Ferguson:

Where did that come from? I don't know. Tell me.

Brett Larkin:

I don't know either. It's when I started my initial... I mean, it just kind of came to me when I was originally starting my own yoga community and kind of my own style. I noticed that one of the things I was really seeing within the community before it had an official name was just people being so encouraging of one another, kind of really lifting each other up. All the programs and everything I do online is extremely interactive. So whether it's through our app or the trainings, you're not practicing alone. It's always very community-based. If you're moving through a program, it's cohort based, meaning you're with the same students going through an experience at the same time, even though we're online. So there's just a huge comradery. And then, obviously Uplifted is how I feel when I do yoga or after I do yoga. So, that's kind of where the name came from. It just kind of came to me one day.

Vincent Ferguson:

You followed your gut, your feelings, and you went with it because now it's extremely successful. And how did you get to this point though, Brett? What inspired you to turn your yoga expertise into a business and make it so successful online?

Brett Larkin:

I think, life is so interesting because I originally started posting videos online because I was too nervous to teach in person. So originally-

Vincent Ferguson:

You, really?

Brett Larkin:

Yes. Yes. So back in 2011, it was almost a cop out because I was still trying to build my confidence to audition for studios and that kind of thing. So I ended up teaching a lot online because for me that felt less scary somehow. I didn't really think anyone would watch any of the videos I put up. Now, the YouTube channel has over 400,000 subscribers.

Vincent Ferguson:

Amazing.

Brett Larkin:

So it grew madly over the course of time. But I think, kind of how I mentioned before, the community and the connection with the students and seeing how the training, whether it's a training plan they're doing in the Uplifted membership, kind of something smaller that we designed for students, or the full certification program. I think for me, what's most rewarding is really seeing how it affects all areas of their life. I mean, most people who come out of our programs or a part of the community say that the way they're speaking to their kids and their partner is different. The interactions, the relationship, it's a complete shift, not just on the yoga mat, but in kind of how they're experiencing reality, the world.

Brett Larkin:

Like the same thing I experienced as a young person, once I started having some of these breathing techniques and tools to help me cope with a lot of the anxiety and stress I was feeling. So, I think that's what really drove me. I never really set out to be, "Let's make this a business." It was always, how can we just help and serve more people and connect with more people and grow the community? And I think that's part of what ultimately has made the business successful because it was never really about building some corporate thing or the money or anything like that. It was always sort of just a passion of mine. Almost like a side project and then it just kept getting bigger. And now obviously, it's my full project, but that was never my intention. So, I'm just so grateful to the community because I think it's not just me. It's like A, the team; my team that now supports everything we do. And then our entire infrastructure of all our graduates, all our alumni, all our students. I mean, they're just the most incredible people.

Vincent Ferguson:

Do your students come from all across the country or any one particular area?

Brett Larkin:

They come from all over the world. It is so incredible.

Vincent Ferguson:

The world.

Brett Larkin:

Yes. I was in the Facebook group for one of our trainings yesterday and it's like, Poland, Russia. We've shipped our training manuals to Zimbabwe. It's crazy. And then, of course, I mean, we have a lot of people in the United States, but I would say 30-35% international and from everywhere. It's amazing.

Vincent Ferguson:

Unbelievable, Brett.

Brett Larkin:

Yeah.

Vincent Ferguson:

Wow. I knew you were a rockstar, but wow. That's amazing.

Brett Larkin:

Well, it's really fun because it makes the training experience so incredible because you're getting these perspectives from people all over the world, which is so different than just doing something that's local. I mean, that has a beauty to it too, but I think that's been something. I mean, every time we run a training, I learn so much from the students. I always tell them that. Right? Because they just have such different backgrounds and so many diverse ideas and it's just, really makes it really rich. Yeah.

Vincent Ferguson:

But is there a problem because of the language barrier?

Brett Larkin:

No. One of the things that a lot of our international students appreciate is everything is recorded. So, when you sign up for a training, you get prerecorded content, whether as a student or a teacher, there's a lot of prerecorded content. So they can re-watch, they can slow down. But even everything that we do live is, they also get recordings to all of that. And then they have the manual to follow along. So for a lot of them, they're more comfortable with written English as opposed to spoken. So obviously, you need to know English. I mean, otherwise it's not going to work. They've said it's actually really nice because if something's confusing, they could just rewind. Right? Or listen to it again, which makes it in some ways better than actually a live training where you don't have that option to press pause.

Vincent Ferguson:

Wow. What an amazing model, business model, that you have going and I can speak for hours about it because it's just very, very exciting to me and interesting how you were able to do this. But at this particular time our country and the world is going through the Coronavirus pandemic, and it's been a very challenging time, mentally, spiritually, physically, and financially for some people. But are more people turning to yoga to help them deal with the stress of these times?

Brett Larkin:

I think so. I mean, just looking at pure data, we saw a huge spike in the interest in yoga, the interest in online yoga, the interest in online yoga trainings during this time of the pandemic. A lot of that is because a lot of people who I think didn't consider studying online suddenly were sort of forced to because there was no other option.

Vincent Ferguson:

Yes, of course.

Brett Larkin:

But I do think there's a bigger theme of people realizing that we need support structures. We need a home practice more than ever that really supports us during these times of intense stress. And if you look at everything with yoga, from the 1950s until now, it has only grown, it has never dipped. Whether we look at the success of Lulu Lemon or yoga studios or the interest in the keyword online. I mean, it just goes up and up and up because I think it's just becoming more mainstream, and more and more people are figuring out that they can kind of connect with it in whatever way they want. And that it's really the ultimate life hack to deal with uncertainty, anxiety, and coming back to the breathing and all the science that's backing up how important that is. So, I think it's growing because of the pandemic, but it was growing before that, and I think it's just going to keep growing.

Vincent Ferguson:

Well, I think so, too. And as I shared earlier with you, before we started recording the interview, I run a nonprofit organization whose focus is on obesity prevention for families, especially children. Do you recommend yoga for children as well? And if so, what age should parents introduce yoga to their kids?

Brett Larkin:

I definitely recommend yoga for kids. I do yoga with my own. It's wonderful, wonderful and you can just introduce it simply by inviting... I mean, even when you just invite a child or anyone to take a deep breath, that's yoga. Right? That's a core yoga concept. So for kids, I think what works best is, or for little kids, is to do the different poses that relate to the different animals, like lion's pose or butterfly pose. They absolutely love that, because it's just like you're playing around on the floor and kind of introducing them to the idea of moving their body. And then songs and music are a wonderful, wonderful way. There's so many great yoga kids' albums that again, just get kids moving, acting like animals. And then before bed is always a really nice time.

Brett Larkin:

I always invite my son to do deep breathing with me before bed. He doesn't even know we're doing yoga. Right? We do deep breathing. I put my hand on his belly. I encourage him to breathe into his belly. Something we see with people who have different medical conditions or maybe are struggling with obesity is often that they're a reciprocal inhibited breather. So if you're a reciprocal inhibited breather, what that means is your diaphragm isn't operating in a way that's the most anatomically efficient for your body. And it means that you're not getting as much oxygen, as much breath, as you could be. It's like you're getting 20 or 30% instead of say 80 or 90% each time you breathe in. Which leads to short, shallow, rapid breathing over time, that can just end up feeling normal unless we kind of counteract and try to correct that.

Brett Larkin:

So, people can Google or look up diaphragmatic breathing or belly breathing, but that's something that I would work on for yourself, but also really with your kids because it calms them down. And it's kind of insuring that they're going to have a breath pattern that... And what's interesting is breathing in this way has actually been linked to reducing obesity.

Vincent Ferguson:

Really?

Brett Larkin:

Yes, and restorative yoga as well. There's been great studies on this. So, I think a big takeaway for the obesity focus is it doesn't have to be hardcore athletic yoga that helps reduce or aids in weight loss, let's say. Actually these restorative, simply lying down, focusing on your breath-based practices, have a huge effect as well in weight loss. Yeah, it's incredible.

Vincent Ferguson:

This was an awesome interview, Brett. Where can my listeners find out more about Brett Larkin?

Brett Larkin:

So you can simply Google my name, Brett Larkin. You'll find YouTube videos, you'll find our website. Or upliftedyoga.com will get you to kind of our members' area. I have over a thousand free videos on YouTube, so you can practice with me any time. And then if you want to go deeper, we have so many courses and designed experiences with a lot of interaction for both students, the student community, and people who are looking to teach. So, that would be the next step. I'd love to practice with some of your listeners on YouTube. So hopefully they can look me up, Brett Larkin, and find a class that works for them. https://www.brettlarkin.com/300-hour-online-yoga-teacher-training/

 

Vincent Ferguson:

And on social media-

Brett Larkin:

Yeah. Mainly YouTube, Facebook and Instagram. So, yeah. And the same, Brett Larkin yoga will get you there.

Vincent Ferguson:

Perfect. Now Brett Larkin, let me just say on behalf of my organization, Body Sculpt of New York and Six Weeks to Fitness, I truly want to thank you for coming on my show today.

Brett Larkin:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Vincent Ferguson:

You are amazing. To my listeners and readers, I truly hope this program was informative and encouraging and inspiring, and that you will continue tuning in to our Six Weeks of Fitness podcast. And if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for the show, please leave them on my Six Weeks to Fitness blog at www.sixweekstofitness.com or email me at vince@sixweeks.com.

Direct download: Episode_163_Brett_Larkin.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 10:08am EDT

Mike Telem is the co-founder of Kemtai, a digital home fitness company using AI and computer vision to provide a virtual gym with real-time precise feedback. He is a serial entrepreneur with extensive experience in building and marketing digital products. Mike lives in Israel with his wife and their two teenage sons. He has a Black Belt in martial arts and is a master swimmer. I am pleased to have Mike Telem on my Six Weeks to Fitness Podcast. Mike, how are you?

Mike Telem:

I'm very good. Thanks. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Vincent Ferguson:

Oh, it's my pleasure to have you on the show. Before we talk about Kemtai, Mike, tell my listeners a little more about you. Where did you grow up and what was your childhood like?

Mike Telem:

I grew up in Israel. I'm almost 45 years old, and had a pretty regular and good life here in Israel. I actually moved to the United States for a couple of years when I was in eighth and ninth grade. That was a very nice experience. I lived in New York, so I'm still a Giants fan and follow U.S. sports quite closely, whether it's the NFL now and the NBA a little bit earlier. Then I came back, I studied high school in Israel. Served in the army, as most of us do, and studied psychology in the university.

Vincent Ferguson:

Excellent. What part of Israel do you live in?

Mike Telem:

I live in the central part, close to Tel Aviv, for those of you that know it. My town is called Giv'at Shmuel. Very nice place, about 15 to 20 minutes from the beach. Now the pools are actually closed, but we can still swim in the Mediterranean and the weather in Israel is quite comfortable for swimmers because we hardly get any winter here. Maybe just two or three months.

Vincent Ferguson:

Sounds nice. Well, I'm in New York and right now it's kind of cold and rainy, so we can appreciate the sunny weather you guys have in Israel right about now. Were you interested in fitness as a child? If so, were there any role models in your life that inspired you?

Mike Telem:

Yes. I loved fitness and as a child, I would obviously just call it sports. I played a lot of group sports around school and very early on, started doing competitive sports. I think I was five when I started practicing martial arts and judo specifically at that point.

Mike Telem:

That was together with my grandfather, who's probably that ideal person that I was always looking up to. He was also a Black Belt and we even managed towards ... He was getting older obviously, but we were able to practice a few times together as Black Belts at the same time. That was a very exciting and very emotional time. I also played soccer on a team in my town, and I played professional squash. I was actually the Israeli junior champion at squash. You could say that I was very much into sports.

Mike Telem:

There were a few years where I did all three of these things at the same time. I'm not sure how exactly, but I love doing sports since I was young. At a later age, obviously you start looking at it slightly differently from the fitness perspective, from the health perspective. Maybe you don't do the same things because of your body or because you don't want to go crazy, because if I do judo or play soccer, I might do things that I shouldn't do because you get excited. I definitely love sports and fitness very, very much.

Vincent Ferguson:

When did the entrepreneurial bug hit you?

Mike Telem:

That's an interesting question because as I was getting into high tech, which was kind of a fluke or a mistake, I was never interested in high tech. I didn't like computers, especially when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s. I got into it because there were a lot of job openings and I thought, "Well, there's a limit to how many years I should be a waiter." Even though I was a pretty good waiter, but I decided that there are some opportunities there.

Mike Telem:

Even while I was in high tech and the whole startup concept and culture started in Israel following a little bit what happened in Silicon Valley and all the success stories, I always used to say it's better to have a good job, a steady job. I don't necessarily see myself opening up a startup. But after a few years in the market gaining experience, you start to see things that could be better, that could be done differently. I was lucky enough to have my best friends from high school also in high tech.

Mike Telem:

In 2009, without thinking about it too deeply, which is I think something good for an entrepreneur. If you think about it too much, you'll never do it because the chances are against you. The odds are against you. We decided to leave our jobs about five minutes after that 2009 financial crisis where everybody thought that the world was going down.

Mike Telem:

We decided that we're going to go after our idea, which was around personalization of websites. We went ahead and did that and that was the start of my entrepreneurship mentality I would say. Later on, I think I would look back at some of the things that I've done as I was an employee in other organizations and I guess I can see that I was always into trying new things and taking responsibility and being very committed to what I'm doing. I guess it started brewing back then.

Vincent Ferguson:

That sounds really good. Now, what are some of the pros and cons of being an entrepreneur, Mike?

Mike Telem:

Obviously one of the pros, it tends to be very interesting, very challenging in a good way. My father was an entrepreneur in a few companies as well and I saw the times that he succeeded and the times that he failed. You do get a lot of ups and downs and you need to be able to handle them. I don't mean that as it's going down, you don't care or you don't feel anxious or even concerned, but there's something inside you that tells you, "It'll come back up again if I do enough about it." But being able to take those times.

Mike Telem:

When you care about something, you feel very bad when it doesn't work well. In any business of your own, it doesn't matter if it's a restaurant or a high-tech startup, you care a lot. Then you have a lot of good times and a lot of bad times. I like to say that it's very similar to being a professional athlete I think because if you think about most professional athletes, most of the time they lose. They get to the semi-finals, they get to the finals. Maybe sometimes they don't even get there. They lose and they lose and they lose at a certain point, right?

Mike Telem:

Once in a while they win the whole thing. Even you look at the Lakers that have just won the NBA title and specifically LeBron James. Yeah. He has a lot of titles, but he lost a bunch of times. You look at people who have won gold medals in the Olympics. You'll remember that, but they also lost many times. As an entrepreneur, you have to be able to lose or not succeed a lot of times and keep on going. That's possibly one of the hardest things about being an entrepreneur. If you can do that, then you can do the rest.

Vincent Ferguson:

I think a lot of entrepreneurs who listen to this podcast would benefit from that advice. You know what I mean? Excellent.

Mike Telem:

Thank you.

Vincent Ferguson:

Now, most of your work has been, as you said, in the high-tech space. Was there an aha moment that motivated you to move into the fitness space and create Kemtai?

Mike Telem:

It was a combination between the fact that both I and my two co-founders, Mor Amitai and Naomi Keren, are very much into fitness and sports. Naomi is a Pilates instructor as a hobby, Mor loves running and working out at home. I had times where I used to work out in front of YouTube videos. The second piece of this equation is that Mor and Naomi have been dealing in computer vision for around 15 years. They actually had a previous startup that dealt with computer vision.

Mike Telem:

Now you have a group of three people that like sports, that like fitness, that know what can be done with computer vision and know what it takes to create a product, to create a company. We very quickly got to the idea of leveraging computer vision to see what you're actually doing and giving you feedback. As an amateur athlete, I've always been very aware of the importance of guidance and feedback. I always ask whatever trainer is around, "Look at what I'm doing. Tell me what I'm doing wrong. Don't tell me that I'm doing great. Just tell me what I'm doing wrong, how I can get better."

Mike Telem:

I like to get that advice, even if it's sometimes hard to follow. We thought, "Well, why can't we use computer vision to give that type of advice?" That is Kemtai.

Vincent Ferguson:

What does Kemtai actually mean? Where did the name come from?

Mike Telem:

The name itself doesn't have a specific meaning, but more of a feel. We hope that a feeling of something dynamic, an action that you can take, but also something that sounds calming and sounds connected to the whole concept of wellness. To some people, it sounds a little bit Eastern or Asian perhaps, but it doesn't have any specific meaning. We just really liked the sound of it. We spent some time looking for various names. It's actually not that easy to find a name that nobody else has used.

Mike Telem:

We were able to do that. We also always reminded ourselves that just like with children, products also make the name.

Vincent Ferguson:

True. The product, the name is very important. Now, explain, what can a user expect to experience from Kemtai and what makes it more effective than other fitness apps on the market today?

Mike Telem:

That's a great question. In terms of what makes Kemtai more effective, Kemtai actually sees you as you work out and can see if you're doing things right or wrong and can also give you a score so you understand your actual performance. As you're doing a specific exercise, let's say you're doing squats, something that everybody can relate to, Kemtai notices that your back is not straight and will tell you with audio and visual cues that you should straighten your back or that you shouldn't go so low.

Mike Telem:

As you follow the instructions, you start feeling the engagement, the connection to the technology that is helping you do the exercise in the best way possible so the workout is more effective and also more fun. The first thing that people typically get excited about is, as you just open up Kemtai and start the first workout, it scans your body and identifies all the data points in your body. Your shoulders, your elbows, your arms, your legs.

Mike Telem:

You feel that connection because as you move, you can see that Kemtai is seeing you, and you can see a visual of your skeleton on the screen. You see that Kemtai is following what you're doing and that is a very magical moment because you understand what the software has done and what it can give you.

Vincent Ferguson:

When I heard about Kemtai, I was so blown away by it. It's definitely a game changer. If I'm looking to build muscle or if I'm looking to increase my cardiovascular conditioning, can Kemtai help me with that?

Mike Telem:

Yes. Kemtai has most of the types of exercises and workouts that you would expect to find in other applications. This goes to your question about the difference as well. You'll find things like running in place and jumping jacks and other things for cardio and small or large weights or pushups or other core exercises to build your muscles. The fact that it gives you feedback, the fact that you can see if you're doing it well and how well you're doing it, means that each and every movement, each and every exercise is so much more effective.

Mike Telem:

If you want to build muscles, as we all know, doing the proper movement sometimes even more slowly and doing it correctly and seeing that you're getting a 90 and not a 70, immediately in real time, means that whether you have 10 minutes for a workout or 50 minutes, that time is so much more effective than what it would be if you were just following a video in YouTube or some other apps, or maybe riding a bike at home, which is very, very limited in terms of what you're doing and has practically zero feedback in terms of, are you doing it well?

Mike Telem:

You can practically sit on that bike and have a cup of coffee. Everything else will still continue the same.

Vincent Ferguson:

That's true. That's true. As a trainer, I'm always correcting the form of clients. As you know, technique, form is everything when it comes to performing the activities.

Mike Telem:

Yes. That is typically the most important thing. It also is very important in terms of avoiding injury, doing things the wrong way, or sometimes fooling yourself, thinking that you have improved while in fact, you're just doing more repetitions, but not in the proper way. Being able to be more effective in the same amount of time is so important. Everybody's very busy. Home fitness is great first and foremost because you don't need to spend too much time around it. You don't need to drive anywhere. Now, you can do so much more and be so much more effective in the same time period. That is very, very helpful for the users that are using Kemtai.

Vincent Ferguson:

Definitely. What do you need in order to use Kemtai? Do you need a laptop, desktop?

Mike Telem:

All you need is a laptop or a desktop, basically a computer with a camera. You don't need any special computer. You don't need to buy any $2,500 device in order to use Kemtai. Just your laptop and your browser and a decent internet connection. Your videos are not recorded, are not even saved anywhere. The system really looks at you like a human being and gives the feedback in real time. No information is being sent to the cloud about your workouts. The only thing you need is laptop and a little bit of room in your house to work out.

Mike Telem:

If you want to take it out and do it on the porch or in the garden, if there's good weather, you can do that too. It's relatively not sensitive to lighting and the space around you. It's very, very convenient and very, very easy to work out with Kemtai and also very affordable because you don't need to buy anything special.

Vincent Ferguson:

Can you also use Kemtai on mobile phones?

Mike Telem:

Not right now. We've decided not to develop Kemtai for mobile phones, because when you think about it, the user experience for something like Kemtai on a mobile phone is quite problematic. The screen is very small. You'd have to put the phone on the floor and it will be very difficult to interact with the system. If you think about it, it's similar to a Zoom session, right? That everybody's doing nowadays.

Mike Telem:

As much as you can control it, you would prefer having the Zoom session on your laptop. Yes, it can work on a phone, but it's not very convenient and you would never pick that in the first choice. Kemtai will run on mobile devices later on, probably next year, but we think that the better experience would always be on something like a laptop and later on, maybe on smart TV or on a device that's connected to a larger screen just because you can see what's going on a lot better and experience this interactive content. See exactly what the trainer is doing and follow their guidance and get the feedback and really make the most out of your workout.

Vincent Ferguson:

Awesome. How long are the exercise programs and how many exercise programs are in the app?

Mike Telem:

There are a few hundred different workouts. Some of them are 5 to 10-minute workouts with maybe just five to 10 exercises. Some of them are as long as an hour. You can do a few workouts one after the other. There are various trainers in Kemtai. These are not just Kemtai trainers, but external personal trainers can also upload their content to Kemtai and then Kemtai runs its processing and learns those movements to enable you as a user to pick a trainer of your choice. We have trainers from Japan, from Singapore, from Brazil, from New York, from Israel. From various places.

Mike Telem:

The idea is also to be a platform that enables trainers to bring forth their style of exercise, their types of workout. Just like in YouTube, you can choose, who you want to watch. In Kemtai, you can choose who would train you and you would get feedback based on their way of doing a squat. Not necessarily Mike's way of doing a squat. You can choose the trainer that you prefer.

Vincent Ferguson:

Now that again, is a game changer when it comes to personal training, because I do know some trainers who would be interested in learning about Kemtai. How do trainers get paid for their experience or their expertise?

Mike Telem:

Right now these are relatively early days with Kemtai but the idea is that trainers would get paid a percentage of the revenue that comes from people working out with their sessions. Similar to what music apps are doing, where if a lot of people subscribe and listen to your music, then you'll get a specific percentage of that. If maybe less people listen to someone else then that singer or songwriter will get a little bit less. The idea is to share a percentage of that revenue with them and also enable them to get to so many more customers.

Mike Telem:

If you're a great personal trainer, why should you be limited to the people that live around you specifically? If you're a great trainer, why not let users from around the world, work out with you? Get your type of feedback. This is really bringing you, the trainer, to life in other people's homes. If you're a very good trainer, not necessarily a celebrity, but a good trainer that provides good workouts and good feedback, a lot of people around the world using Kemtai will enjoy choosing your workouts.

Vincent Ferguson:

I like that concept completely, but you're still in the early stages of this though, as far as building this out, correct?

Mike Telem:

Yes. Because of COVID, we've launched an initial preliminary version quite early, around April. Just wanted people to enjoy it and be able to use what was available then. We're now getting close to a very substantial new version that include these workouts that I mentioned, and also studio workouts, where you can choose, for instance, Pilates for beginners or for advanced or high intensity training or yoga. Also, developing a concept we call the adaptive coach that changes the workout in the middle of the workout based on your actual performance at that moment.

Mike Telem:

If I see that something is too difficult for you, I might lower the level or the intensity in the next exercise. If I see you're doing very well, I might increase the intensity in the next exercise. This is even taking this whole concept of real-time feedback another step forward. Those things are coming out pretty soon. We would probably be announcing it in a couple of weeks. I guess you got a sneak peek here to these concepts.

Mike Telem:

We think that now in terms of having enough content, various types of workouts and exercises, the product has made a lot of progress and we're seeing users enjoy it more and work out with it on a regular basis.

Vincent Ferguson:

Do you think Kemtai will inspire more of us to actually work out at home?

Mike Telem:

I think so. Home fitness was huge before COVID. Home fitness was actually huge 30 or 40 years ago with Jane Fonda and DVDs and people buying bikes for their houses. Home fitness has always been a big market. People have always seen the advantages. What I think COVID has done, apart from a lot of bad things, is give people an opportunity to realize just how much progress was done in home fitness and the fact that in many aspects, you can do things at home today that are as good and in some aspects, even better than what you can find outside or in a gym.

Mike Telem:

For instance, Peloton is a great example. You can get a great experience, some would argue even better than a spinning class, and you can do it at the convenience of your home and even do a class with a thousand people. Kemtai provides you the experience of having a personal trainer at your home, providing real-time feedback, personalized perfectly to you. Most people can't afford that, not even once a week, not to mention a few times a week. Logistically it's typically an issue. COVID pushed people to explore home fitness and to realize what advances were made in the past five/seven years in this market.

Mike Telem:

Now they're enjoying it and I think they will continue to enjoy home fitness even after COVID ends, which I hope happens very soon. People will have a hybrid approach where maybe a couple of times a week I go to the gym, another time maybe I go outside running, a couple more times I work out at home with Kemtai or any other technology that I find interesting and relevant for me. That's what you're going to see I think in the next few years.

Vincent Ferguson:

I agree. I'm totally sold on Kemtai and I'm sure a lot of my listeners will be as well. What is the financial investment? What does it cost?

Mike Telem:

It's actually quite affordable in my opinion. It's $19 a month. You even get a discount if you take an annual subscription, you get all the workouts, all the trainers, all the exercise. You can use it as much as you want. Other people in your household can use it. I guess for a year, you would still pay less than one personal training session and you can use Kemtai as much as you want. One day you can do Pilates, the other you can do high intensity or weights, anything you want.

Vincent Ferguson:

How are you guys getting the word out about Kemtai? I know you're doing podcasts, but what other advertising and marketing are you doing?

Mike Telem:

We have some social media campaigns that you can expect, but to be honest, we really believe in word of mouth. We think that as the product is getting better and better, more people are simply going to talk about it. I can see that more and more people are getting to us via simple search in Google because someone told them about Kemtai. We're now releasing a concept that we call a challenge where I can imagine that the challenge is maybe three simple exercises, two minutes long altogether. I do the challenge and I can see that I got a 75 and I can see my rank in the global leaderboard or how I rank with my country.

Mike Telem:

I can share the challenge with you and say, "Hey, you talk a lot about fitness. Let's see how much you can get. Let's see what you're going to score in the challenge." Those are the types of things that we prefer, where people simply enjoy it and share it with others. Strategically, that is the type of marketing that we want to do. You might call it more product-oriented marketing, where I just want people to get a chance to try Kemtai. Use it and if they're happy, tell their friends about it and that's going to be enough.

Vincent Ferguson:

I agree. I think that will be enough because Kemtai is going to sell itself. I really believe that.

Mike Telem:

Well, I hope you're right. I think you're right. We still have a lot of work to make sure that you're right.

Vincent Ferguson:

Right. Exactly. Now, Mike, I run a nonprofit organization for children, right? A health organization, but can kids use the Kemtai program?

Mike Telem:

Yes. Technically, at least from a certain age Kemtai picks up the body just as well and kids can use it. It hasn't been our focus right now, just because it's important to be a little more sensitive with things that you provide kids, but we love helping these types of causes. We want more kids to be active and keep their health and get good habits from a young age. I was actually not aware that you have something like that so I would love to learn more. We would love to provide access somehow to your audience so they'll be able to work out with Kemtai free of charge, of course, and enjoy home fitness.

Vincent Ferguson:

Great, we're looking to do some stuff for the children, because all the kids are home now and childhood obesity is a major issue. That's what we're trying to combat. I will send you some information through Margie about what we do and this way, perhaps we can work together on helping children to become more healthy.

Mike Telem:

That would be wonderful.

Vincent Ferguson:

Now, where do you see Kemtai in the next five years?

Mike Telem:

I think we will make a lot of progress on the technology on additional ways of adapting the workouts to your goals and to your performance, making it more effective, but also working on making it more fun. Adding more ways of really bringing to life the different trainers and the different styles. Supporting more types or categories of workouts, whether it's Pilates and yoga already, but later on, maybe some shadowboxing and some other types. A lot of people have asked us, can we help their golf swing?

Mike Telem:

Again, technologically, it's definitely possible, but every different category takes some attention. We're hoping to cover more and more of the ... Martial arts is something that's close to heart for me obviously. I would love to train karate via the application. Again, I don't see it replacing going to the dojo and working out, but it can definitely help and increase your proficiency in those categories

Vincent Ferguson:

I can see that as well. Kemtai is definitely a game changer. I'll stand by that.

Mike Telem:

I appreciate that.

Vincent Ferguson:

How can my listeners learn more about Kemtai?

Mike Telem:

The best thing would be to go to app.kemtai.com. That's A-P-P.K-E-M-T-A-I. com and try it out. There is a sample workout. Everybody can try, see what it feels like. It's a very easy workout. You can do it in your jeans. The whole idea is to get a feel for Kemtai and then decide whether you want to try it out. There's a money-back guarantee. It's very, very easy. It's a lot of fun. Just go to app.kemtai.com or www.kemtai.com and give it a try.

Vincent Ferguson:

Excellent. Excellent. Can we follow you on social media?

Mike Telem:

Yes. You can follow Kemtai virtual fitness on Instagram. We have a Kemtai user group on Facebook. You can join and follow either one of those. Get information from us and updates, and also connect with peers that are following up and working out with Kemtai.

Vincent Ferguson:

Excellent. Mike Telem, on behalf of Body Sculpt of New York and Six Weeks to Fitness, I truly want to thank you for coming on my show today.

Mike Telem:

I appreciate. It was a pleasure. I love talking about my job and I love talking about fitness and it's been great talking to you. I appreciate you having me.

Direct download: Episode_162_Mike_Telem.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 9:39am EDT

Kathryn Kelly is the founder and CEO of Taste Buzz Food Tours, a Las Vegas-based food tour company, providing guests with an exclusive local insider's perspective on the absolute best places to eat in the city. Guests can choose between two three-hour walking tour options, the Las Vegas strip option, and an evening option in downtown Las Vegas. Taste Buzz Food Tour guests are treated to five different foodie restaurants, where they can enjoy a mind-blowing sampling of one to four of the venues most popularized must-have dishes. Kathryn Kelly is also a fitness competitor, and she took first place in the Team USA 2020 Junior Masters Fitness competition and is now currently training for Miss Olympia.

Vincent Ferguson:

Before we discuss your amazing company, Taste Buzz Food Tours, let's talk a little about Kathryn Kelly's early years. Where did you grow up and what was your childhood like?

Kathryn Kelly:

Las Vegas is my home. I was born here. Born and raised in Las Vegas. I did spend one year of my childhood in the Philippines because my mom is Filipino. So we came back here again. I would have to say that my childhood is probably not like most other children because I grew up in Las Vegas, I did spend a lot of time in the hotels and the casinos running around, playing in the arcades. And then as well, the city isn't like most other cities, it's definitely unique on its own.

Vincent Ferguson:

I've been to Vegas and I can't wait to go back. Now, were you involved with fitness at all when you were a child?

Kathryn Kelly:

I wouldn't say professionally or anything like that. Just like other kids, I enjoyed running around and playing around. This was a little bit different than I guess the way kids grow up now. I think a lot of children play video games and use their cell phones a lot more than I did when I was growing up. I have two brothers and we were very much out for the... We would run around the streets, we would climb walls, we would climb trees. We were always playing catch and shooting hoops. So I was always active and into fitness without actually playing sports or going to the gym or anything like that.

Vincent Ferguson:

That's interesting because even though you were not involved in any structured fitness activity, you still got into the fitness world. So how did you become interested in a fitness competition?

Kathryn Kelly:

Well, I was always active as a kid.  It was probably when I was in high school or college when I started actually doing classes. So I started getting really into yoga and I started going to this gym. And when I was about 18 years old, I started working at the juice bar inside the LVAC here, which is our local gym. And part of working for the juice bar, I got to use the facility as often as I wanted. So I got to go to any of the classes. I got to use the workout room. I got to use the steam room and the pool, which was really exciting for me because I had never had access to that before. So I started working out. I didn't really know what I was doing, but I would just be in there and using the machines and figuring things out myself.

Kathryn Kelly:

Ever since then, I just continued going to the gym. So after that, I subscribed to a membership at the gym. Actually, I'm still a member of LVAC today and that's where I train and work out. And I just love it. I love working out. I love bodybuilding and my passion for bodybuilding has grown throughout the years. So in the beginning, I was saying that it was more of just like go to the gym and do whatever I deemed fit for the day. It was in the last few years, I've really taken on this passion to where, or interest in how bodybuilding changes the way your body looks and how you can manipulate the shape of your body, and I find that very interesting.

Vincent Ferguson:

You went ahead and participated in a competition. Did someone encourage you to take part in that show?

Kathryn Kelly:

Yes. Let's see, it's been about five years now, I went to a different gym, the same gym, but there are five locations here in Las Vegas. So I started going to a different one because I had moved. And one of the trainers was like, "You have a great body to do the bikini competitions." She was telling me about, it took me a little bit to decide whether or not I wanted to do it. And so I said, "You know what? I think I'm going to." One day I was at the gym and I saw this girl and I was never really into really muscular look for a female. I liked more of that soft, feminine look. But once I was at the gym and I saw this girl and she was muscular, but yet she was still feminine and I thought she was gorgeous.

Kathryn Kelly:

So I told the coach, I said, "Yes. Okay, let's do it." So she trained me for a fitness competition and actually, I hated it.

Vincent Ferguson:

Really? You hated it.

Kathryn Kelly:

Yeah, I did. I hated the entire process. It was interesting, but I didn't like the entire process. I was starving. I don't think I was at the right place mentally. I was at the gym every day and I was still doing it, but I didn't enjoy the process. And I think a big part as well was the food. I didn't really understand the food concept of it, what I was supposed to be doing. And at this time, while I was training, one of the other coaches at the gym, he approached me and he's like, "What are you doing?" And I was explaining to him that I'm entering in this bikini competition and he was interested and he started talking to me and he let me do my own thing.

Kathryn Kelly:

And after the competition which I didn't do very well in, he was like, "Let me start training you." And for years I was like, "No, it's not my thing." I really didn't like it. And we've become really good friends. My coach is Jerry Anderson, so he's actually a 17 time Mister All Natural Universe title winner, and he's been training since 2001, really. So I look up to him and he took me under his wings and in the past year, I told him, "Okay, let's do this again." And he trained me and I have a new mental approach towards the competitions and fitness and bodybuilding in general. And the process is much more pleasant. I actually really enjoyed every step of the way. And a lot of it has to do with the food since that's such a big part of your life. And I took first for the Miss Bikini Diva National Team USA for Junior Championship.

Vincent Ferguson:

So what's the next step, Miss Olympia?

Kathryn Kelly:

Well, there's, yes, there's the Olympia, which will be here in Las Vegas as well. This is the natural competition and I will be entering into the amateur division.

Vincent Ferguson:

What's the date on that? Do you know?

Kathryn Kelly:

That is November 12th through the 15th. They haven't set the actual date for my competition, exactly. But it'll be one of those days.

Vincent Ferguson:

Still Miss Olympia. That's a big deal. You know what I mean?

Kathryn Kelly:

Yeah. I'm really excited to do this. Yeah.

Vincent Ferguson:

You learned about the training aspect of it. And you also know now about the nutrition aspect of it, which is also a pretty big deal, right?

Kathryn Kelly:

Yeah. They actually say that the food when you're training is probably like 60 to 70% of your body and the fitness aspect of it.

Vincent Ferguson:

And that's why it's so interesting that you started a food business. So that's what we want to talk about. As you said, nutrition is very important. Do you follow a strict nutrition plan as you prepare for the show?

Kathryn Kelly:

Yes. I do have a strict nutrition plan for the show. Correct. And I think, one of the reasons why I'm able to follow it so strictly, and I don't have these urges to cheat, is because my diet plan is built around the things that I enjoy to eat. So I know when people are asking me about the competition, they're like, the first thing that they say and this must be widely recognized is that if you're doing a competition, you're just eating chicken breasts and broccoli, because that's what everybody says. "Oh, so you're just eating chicken and broccoli, chicken and broccoli." And I have to tell you, I'm not the biggest fan of steamed broccoli and just plain chicken breasts. I probably wouldn't do very well if that's what I was told to eat. So my trainer gave me a lot of room to be able to manipulate my diet by following certain rules, and I created meal plans for myself where I actually enjoy the food.

Vincent Ferguson:

So that has got to be the key to be able to still enjoy yourself, enjoy the foods you eat as you prepare for the show. Correct?

Kathryn Kelly:

I believe so. Yeah. It's definitely, it's a mental thing and it's about balance. And if you're not enjoying the process, it's going to be very, very hard to be able to succeed.

Vincent Ferguson:

Now, let's talk a little bit about your business, the Taste Buzz Food Tours, which is awesome. I read about it. It’s amazing.

Kathryn Kelly:

Thank you.

Vincent Ferguson:

How long has the company been around and where did the concept come from?

Kathryn Kelly:

So we started doing food tours back in 2016 and the concept started because I really wanted to show off my city, which is Las Vegas, to visitors. So I love to travel and when I travel, I want to see, and I want to do, and I want to go where all the locals go. I don't love “let me just do sightseeing and let me do all these activities.” I love a more local approach. And I know that when people come to Las Vegas, it's a little bit harder to get that because this is a big city and you're overstimulated with lights and shows and nightclubs. And there's just so much activity. And if you don't know somebody that lives here, it's going to be hard to get that "Where can I really go? Am I getting ripped off?" Like, "Everything is so expensive." One of those kinds of vacations.

Kathryn Kelly:

I wanted people to really appreciate Las Vegas and see the charm that I get to see. So since food is my passion, I decided to show it off in a way that I would really enjoy. And luckily it came at a time when the foodie realm was starting to become really popular and people are exploring different food options. And at a time too, when Las Vegas started changing from a really big chain restaurant city to more of these local holes in the wall, chef-driven restaurants.

Vincent Ferguson:

That's interesting because all the time, the many times I've been there; I didn't know anything about that. It was all about going to the big shows, visiting the hotels, all the excitement that comes with it. If I would've known there was something like the Taste Buzz Food Tours, I would have definitely taken advantage of that. But prior to starting your company, did you have any experience working in the restaurant and hospitality industry?

Kathryn Kelly:

Yes I did. So I'm going to go way back and I'm going to say that, it's always been a dream of mine to own my own cafe or a little restaurant. I remember when I was really young, before I could even start working as a teenager, I would watch these TV shows and I would see the small-town girl and she was always tomboyish, but cute and she was always a server. It just always looked like a really fun job to me. And so for some reason, I always wanted to be a server in a restaurant. That was my dream when I was a teenager. I was like; I was going to be a server. And I started off as a hostess and then I became a food runner. This was back in the day when you had to have experience working in the food and beverage industry here.

Kathryn Kelly:

So I made my way up and then I became a food server. Then when I became a food server, I was like, "You know what? I want to be a bartender." And then I became a bartender. And then I was like, "You know what? I love bartending, but I think I want to do something different." "I'm going to show people around." And then I became a food tour guide for Taste Buzz Food Tours. I created the concept and it's been great. It really worked out.

Vincent Ferguson:

The response has been great so far then?

Kathryn Kelly:

Yes. As you were saying earlier, a lot of people come to Las Vegas and they're looking like, "Okay, I'm in Vegas. I have to do this big... I'm going to do the shows. I'm going to do the nightclubs. I'm going to do the pools." And that's all great. I definitely think you should come to Las Vegas, experience that because as a city, I think we're the best place for that. You cannot get this kind of excitement anywhere else in the world. And we have some of the most beautiful hotels and nightclubs that you'll ever see and you have that aspect of the city, but it's also really, really cool to see a different side of the city. In a city that's so big and grand that you can have this small-town feel to it as well, where everybody knows everybody and you walk around and people are like, "Hey, hi Kathy, how you doing?" And, "Hi, welcome to our restaurant." People really enjoy that.

Vincent Ferguson:

It’s a very intimate type of an environment.

Kathryn Kelly:

Exactly.

Vincent Ferguson:

Are there other food tour businesses going on right now in Vegas?

Kathryn Kelly:

With the pandemic, I think a lot of places have had to shut down. So I'm not really sure because everybody's kind of reopening and navigating the reopening on their own accord. But we started up right away, as soon as the city reopened. And we were ready to show off our restaurants and help build up the support again, because they really needed it.

Vincent Ferguson:

Oh, definitely. But how has this current pandemic affected your business?

Kathryn Kelly:

Well, restaurants were closed, so we completely shut down. And then the city reopened and business is slower than usual, but I think, in a way it's been good because I've had time to do some restructuring and reorganization, but at the same time, people are coming to Las Vegas and they cannot do the shows and a lot of other tour companies, like let's say Grand Canyon or whatever, they're not running as often. People are having to look to do other activities. And I think, just by searching what to do in Las Vegas, we're coming up and people are like, "What is that?" And we're getting a lot of guests who've never done food tours before, and just trying to experience something different. They go on our tour and they're like, "Wow, I'm so glad that we were able to find you and try something different."

Kathryn Kelly:

So it's been good. I think we're going to have a lot more guests and followers for the future years.

Vincent Ferguson:

Oh yeah. It sounds like it. And also, it's a good time to market and promote your business too.

Kathryn Kelly:

Oh, for sure. For sure. I love the fact that we're working with a lot of the smaller restaurants and that we're able to promote and help them out at a time like this because we have a very strong food and beverage industry here and it's sad to see a lot of places having to close down because of the situation. And so it's nice to be like, "Let me introduce this restaurant to my guests." And my guests, they'll come back; they'll tell their friends about it. So the next time they come back to Las Vegas, they can say, "Try out this restaurant. We had a really good time on Taste Buzz Food Tours." It's promoting and marketing those restaurants as well.

Vincent Ferguson:

Excellent. Now I've been on many tours, but never a food tour. So explain what we can expect to see and do while on a tour.

Kathryn Kelly:

Yeah. Okay. Well, next time you come to Las Vegas, you're going to have to come check us out.

Vincent Ferguson:

Yeah. I promise.

Kathryn Kelly:

We do a little bit of everything. So I think what makes our food tours very unique is not only do we get to try the local side of Las Vegas, but we get to try the variety of it as well. You'll do something at a hole in the wall. You might do a food truck. We might stop by a coffee shop or a brewery, but you'll also do a nice trendy restaurant all in one tour. And you get to try those signature items. So you really get to see what makes that restaurant special through a local's eyes. You might be able to meet a chef. We're very close with the people that we work with and the restaurants that we work with. So if the chef is on duty, he might come out and say hi, and we could take souvenir photos for you to remember.

Kathryn Kelly:

We do some sightseeing as well. So the routes are walking tours, so you get to see the most out of the city, but we'll walk through some of the top attractions and we'll do some fun facts about the attraction, take more photos and some history.

Vincent Ferguson:

Wow, you said it's a walking tour. So you get some exercise in.

Kathryn Kelly:

You get exercise, you get food, you get sightseeing, and you get a little bit of everything. It's a really great concept.

Vincent Ferguson:

Goodness. That is awesome. Now, how much do the tours cost? Are they expensive?

Kathryn Kelly:

I think they're very reasonably priced. Our downtown food tour is $95 per person. And our Las Vegas strip food tour is $99 per person. So for under a hundred dollars, you get a three hour experience, which includes sightseeing, history and a full meal.

Vincent Ferguson:

How many people can you accommodate on each tour?

Kathryn Kelly:

We do small group tours, so usually there are 12 on a daily basis, but right now with the COVID restrictions it's reduced to 10, just so that people feel a little bit more safe.

Vincent Ferguson:

Oh, I see. Yeah. It's very limited right now. Right?

Kathryn Kelly:

Yeah. So there are a lot of restrictions still here in the city. So we're trying to please everybody.

Vincent Ferguson:

Yes. It's been challenging, but I'm sure we're going to get through this, you know?

Kathryn Kelly:

Yeah. We will, we will in time. We just need a little bit more time for people to feel safe. And we got to do the right thing and prevent the spread and, eventually, we'll get through, we'll get through this difficult time.

Vincent Ferguson:

Most definitely. We'll be looking back on this and saying, "Remember when?"

Kathryn Kelly:

I know, right? Remember that crazy year?

Vincent Ferguson:

Exactly, exactly. The key is to keep going, stay focused and we'll get through it. We always do. And we always will.

Kathryn Kelly:

Yes.

Vincent Ferguson:

How long are the tours? How much time does it take?

Kathryn Kelly:

They are three hours long. So from the time we meet to the time we say goodbye, everything's about three hours long, which is a perfect time for an experience. You get that intimate feeling with your tour guide and you get to eat for three hours long, a little bit of walking here and there. And then, after the tour, you get to go on and explore more things in Las Vegas.

Vincent Ferguson:

I love it. How far in advance do you recommend customers’ book a food tour?

Kathryn Kelly:

I would say as soon as you know you're coming to Las Vegas and you've decided, "I'm going to take the food tour." Because, since our groups are small, especially right now, they're only up to eight people, they book out.  So definitely you want to get your tickets as soon as possible.

Vincent Ferguson:

Yeah, this is great! Sounds like it would be a lot of fun to bring a family; your friends, to go out there and make it happen. That sounds to me like a winner.

Kathryn Kelly:

Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. It's a really nice experience really, for everybody. And we've made it for all ages. So you could bring your family, you could bring your kids. It's a great date night. It's great for bachelorettes. It's great for wedding parties. It's great for friend’s night out. It really is a fun, wholesome activity.

Vincent Ferguson:

But how do you balance getting ready for a show and running your business?

Kathryn Kelly:

I won't eat on the food tours while I am getting ready for the competitions. And it is a mental thing. So I made my decision. I'm going to do the competition and you just have to stay focused. And it is hard because I have to meet with new restaurants or I'll be out at an event and there's all this amazing food coming out, and people are asking you to "Please eat," and I'm like, "I cannot. Not this time, but I'll be back."

Kathryn Kelly:

It's only, however long you diet for, so the last competition I dieted for 13 weeks, which is a typical amount of time for a diet, but it's stricter and stricter as the competition goes, so you just have to stay focused. And then I know as well, it's only for this amount of time and then afterwards I can go out and I can enjoy all these restaurants and all of this food once again.

Vincent Ferguson:

Oh yeah. After it's over, it's on.

Kathryn Kelly:

Exactly. It's time to celebrate.

Vincent Ferguson:

There you go. Exactly, exactly. But if you can say anything else to my listeners, what would it be about your business?

Kathryn Kelly:

I would say, just do it, it's just so much fun. You get to go out, get to meet great people; you get to experience something that only a small group of people get to experience. And it's fun for everyone. You get to try great food; you get to exercise at the same time. Life's all about balance. So while you're here in Las Vegas, you want to be able to enjoy as much as you can.

Vincent Ferguson:

Most definitely. So how can we find out more about Taste Buzz Food Tours and you?

Kathryn Kelly:

So visit our website, www.tastebuzzvegas.com and you'll have all the information, all the fun photos for our tours. You can also visit on Facebook and Instagram @tastebuzzfoodtours. And if you wanted to look me up a little bit more, I do have a personal Instagram, it's K_to_the_athy.

Direct download: Episode_161_Kathryn_Kelly.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 10:12am EDT

Katherine Amato and Natasa Billeci are the Founders of the Katan Klinic, an integrative skin revision and anti-aging sanctuary, where all treatment programs are uniquely tailored to each patient’s needs. Together, they have over 20 years of combined experience in the field of Aesthetic Medicine. Their experiences led them to recognize that aging well was more about developing completely customized regimens for each client and not relying on beauty trends and cookie-cutter treatments. Katan Klinic’s mission is to rebuild beauty from the inside out using a sustainable long-term regimen that keeps the skin evolving and aging gracefully.

Vincent Ferguson :

Before we discuss the Katan Klinic, let's talk a little about the both of you. Where were you born and raised and where did your interest in health come from?

Katherine Amato:

I'm born and raised in Long Island, New York and I have been here ever since. My interest in skincare really started from a young age, definitely with my mom, just her always being into taking care of herself, skin, going to get facials. It really just stemmed from following her, going with her to her little facial appointments. It really just ended up being something that I really felt deeply about.

Natasa Billeci:

I too am a native New Yorker, born and raised. I'm actually first-generation American born. I am a child of immigrant parents that came here in the early 70s. And very early on in life, I was exposed to the beauty and wellness space through my mom, much like with Katherine, but my mom had her own hair salon. And so I grew up around beauty and wellness. Later on in life, I had some of my own health issues that created a much deeper interest in how do we take a more integrative and whole-person approach without having to dip into pharmaceuticals, but doing things a bit more naturally. So that's really where my passion for health started was really through my personal journey with my own issues.

Vincent Ferguson :

Wow. Very nice. Now, how did the two of you meet?

Katherine Amato:

We both worked for a short time together in a skincare clinic and we forged a relationship and that's really how it happened. And then we went our own ways for a little bit, and we reconnected about a year or two later. And that's how we both were like, let's do this together. Let's open up a place and start something new.

Vincent Ferguson :

Nice. How long have you guys been around?

Natasa Billeci:

We've been in business together as Katan Klinic for about two and a half years now.

Vincent Ferguson :

Two and a half years. But you have combined again, 20 years of experience though.

Natasa Billeci:

Yes, we do. Both Katherine and I have a very deeply rooted background in aesthetic medicine as well as dermatology. I am a nurse and my specialty is dermatology. Katherine is an aesthetician. We really brought together our skills, talents, and experiences to be able to give our clients and patients a very integrative and whole person approach to reviving their skin.

Vincent Ferguson :

In your bio, I read off how you are an integrative skin revision and anti-aging sanctuary. What does that mean? And what type of treatments do you provide at the Katan Klinic?

Natasa Billeci:

That's a great question Vince. Our approach and our philosophy to skin revision and general skin health are a bit different than what's customary in the industry. You're coming into our clinic and we're not looking at you as someone who just needs to get rid of their acne or someone who has pigmentation issues, but we're looking at you as a whole person. And the reason that we've taken this approach to reviving skin is because skin is influenced by everything else that's going on around us, so whether we're talking about your lifestyle choices, that means your nutrition. It means how much you move on a daily basis, what you eat and whether or not that's appropriate for your individual physiological needs.

Natasa Billeci:

We're looking at the skincare ingredients that you need and the dose of these skincare ingredients. It's a little more than just looking at your skin and saying, "hey, we're going to do a couple of fabulous treatments on you and your skin is going to be glowy and dewy for a couple of days." Our approach is really based on creating an individualized treatment program, as well as one that's going to carry you through your lifetime and allow you to age a lot better.

Vincent Ferguson :

You deal with each individual client separately based on their particular needs.

Natasa Billeci:

That's exactly right. The consultation is a really important portion of our visits. When you enter our clinic, we don't allow people to just book a facial or book a Botox treatment. You come into our practice and we spend about an hour or two, really getting to know who you are. And in that process, you're going to be sharing a lot about your medical history, your family history, your lifestyle, your sleeping patterns, and your eating patterns. And we bring all of this information together so that we can really build that customized plan for you.

Katherine Amato:

I think that what separates us so much from other places is when someone comes in, they sit down with both Natasa and I for the most part most of the time, and they're getting two different backgrounds of knowledge. Natasa is so rooted in the medical field and the health and wellness portion. I'm so much in the skincare with skincare ingredients and treatment that tandemly, when we're working together with a client they're leaving with so much education and knowledge before they even get a treatment. And I feel that that's so priceless and it's so important. And I think that's what really sets us apart from other clinics and kind of run it in mill med spas that just let you book your own treatment, go through a menu card and say, "Oh, I want this vitamin C facial or this filler today." We don't really allow you to tell us what you want, we tell you what you need.

Vincent Ferguson :

Now, who are your ideal clients?

Natasa Billeci:

Our ideal clients are those that understand the importance of really integrating skin health into their lifestyle. If we take a look at, especially, many women that are interested in caring for their skin, if they went into their skincare spend budget and looked at how much money is spent on different creams and serums and different tools and equipment, what they would end up seeing is that they're spending a lot of money on products that end up sort of sitting on their shelf. And they don't really cause an effect, right? We see a lot of skincare products that are promoted by celebrities or influencers, and they claim that it changed their skin forever. But the reality is, is that we're all unique individuals.

Natasa Billeci:

If you're able to honor the fact that you may not respond in the same way to a certain treatment or a skincare product or routine, that is where a clinic like ours will come into the mix. Our client is someone who's looking for a little bit more of a sophisticated and personalized experience. Someone who really understands that it's not just about creams, but it's about lifestyle as well. And they're willing to create a budget on an annual basis just to make sure that they're aging well and that they are achieving these individualized skin health goals.

Vincent Ferguson :

How important is nutrition to slowing down the aging process?

Natasa Billeci:

That's a great question, and it's probably a little bit beyond the scope of our conversation here, but it's sort of tapping into the general concept. When we think about nutrition, nutrition is going to drive our skin health in a lot of different ways. the skin is connected to the gut and that's one of the important connections that we see a lot of research on today. There's also a lot of research with regards to biomarkers, things like blood testing, saliva testing, looking at our cortisol levels, the changes in our hormone levels. And those are two of the really important factors that we know influence our skin health and the aging process. And a lot of those things can be mitigated through really good nutrition and personalized nutrition.

Vincent Ferguson :

And do you discuss nutrition with your clients?

Natasa Billeci:

Yes, we do. Both Katherine and I are certified health coaches as well. When we're going through the entire consultation process, we're talking a lot with the patient about their health habits and their nutrition as well. And we make recommendations that are going to be supporting their skin revision journey.

Vincent Ferguson :

Nice. But how do you determine what facial procedures are best for someone's skin?

Katherine Amato:

We have to discuss their budget. I think that's something that's really important when we're creating this program for a client, also, what their commitment is going to be. If someone is willing to come in two to three times a month for a micro current treatment or let's say, a cleaning every two to three weeks, that's also plays a big role in what treatment they're going to get. Also, what conditions they have. Also, if they're pregnant or if they're breastfeeding, so many different factors play into what treatment they're going to get. Someone that is not ready to stop being in the sun. Sun is such a big environmental factor for so many things such as sun damage, inflammatory hyperpigmentation. I really have to get a sense of their lifestyle before determining what the best treatment is for their skin.

Vincent Ferguson :

What type of equipment do you use in your practice?

Natasa Billeci:

We have a couple of different types of equipment that we rely on. Firstly, we very rarely rely on just eyeballing someone's skin. The first part of the process is using technology to allow us to really see the structure and function of the skin. We use a skin analysis device where the patient actually puts their head in this little unit and the unit changes different lights and what it does is it allows us to see things like pigmentation that hasn't come up to the surface just yet. It allows us to see areas of the skin that are maybe hyperactive with the sebaceous glands. It allows us to see a lot of the stuff that's going to come to the surface down the line. And so with that in mind, we take that information, all of the information that we gather from the health questionnaire, the skin questionnaire, and we bring that together to help guide that treatment routine and that regime. Again, it's going back to that very personalized approach to the person's program.

Vincent Ferguson :

Because I know, I've mentioned that you don't use just a cookie cutter approach. You're giving individualized support, attention, consultation to your clients. Do you have clients who stick with you for the long haul?

Natasa Billeci:

Yeah. And that's one of the big underlying variables in our practice. We are building a lifetime relationship and program for each of our clients. So we're going to age with you. We're going to take you through all of the processes of your life, whether it's menopause, whether it's a terrible divorce, whether it's the stress that was caused by something like COVID 19, we're always there for you, helping you modify and adjust so that you age in the best way that you possibly can. And when we look at what equipment we're going to use or what interventions we're going to use, they're also going to be based on your preferences. As a nurse and an injector, I have clients that come in that are maybe not interested in doing hyaluronic acids or fillers, so that's a client that I would take down a vampire facial route or someone that I would do something called platelet-rich plasma on. Each of these programs is going to be completely individualized to the client, allowing them to age in the best possible way that they can in a way that's appropriate to them.

Vincent Ferguson :

Well, aging is a very important issue as you know. We all get older, but we don't want to necessarily look old.

Natasa Billeci:

That's right.

Katherine Amato:

And I also think a lot of our equipment that we carry and the treatments we do, we really try to focus on increasing cellular health and just strengthening the structural integrity of the skin. I think that's what it comes down to. I think a lot of people forget about working on their actual skin and they focus so much on like, I hate to go off on a tangent, but like Instagram, like everyone's focusing on getting high cheekbones and bigger lips and the different shape of their face. I think it's really focusing on building, optimizing your skin health. And that's what we try to focus on the most first, at least primarily. And then from there, we kind of tweak whatever they want to enhance or make better.

Natasa Billeci:

And to your point, Vince, none of us like the fact that we're aging, but what we can do is have that target that when we're 40, we should look like we're 30 and when we're 50, we should look like we're 40. And that's a reasonable goal to have in terms of the aging process itself. And that's something that we help our clients achieve every day.

Vincent Ferguson :

Awesome. Because the skin is our largest organ, right? The largest organ in our body.

Katherine Amato:

Yes.

Natasa Billeci:

That's right. And it's very much impacted by all of the other organ systems in the body as well. A lot of times people look at the skin as, it's kind of hanging out on an island by itself, but it's really not. It's deeply influenced by everything that's going on within as well. There's a lot of communication there.

Vincent Ferguson :

Most definitely. And earlier you mentioned COVID-19 and I can't let this conversation go without asking you, has this pandemic affected their skin? The stress, the worry that's going on right now?

Natasa Billeci:

Absolutely. It goes back down to the fact that skin is not an island. And so now that we've officially reopened here in New York, it's been a huge challenge. We have a lot of our clients that due to the stress, their inflammatory factors were elevated so much in their skin that we're seeing them developing other conditions that they didn't have previously. Their skin is a lot more reactive. They're getting acne when they never had it before. There's a lot going on in terms of compromised skin health right now that has been a huge challenge. It's definitely impacted our clients significantly. And it's impacted us as a small business in the middle of one of the most highly populated cities in the world that was hit really hard by this pandemic.

Vincent Ferguson :

And that was my next question about how were you being impacted. And you just answered that. Amazing. I know you're located in New York, but actually where exactly in New York are you located?

Katherine Amato:

We're right in midtown on Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street, right in the heart.

Vincent Ferguson :

That's the heart, but the heart has been affected.

Natasa Billeci:

It has indeed.

Katherine Amato:

It has.

Natasa Billeci:

It's been a very, very challenging time period. We've also seen a change in a lot of our clients’ lifestyle. We have a lot of moms that are clients that are now at home and homeschooling their children, which has been impacting their ability to care for their skin. Coming in for regular treatments has become an issue. We have really shifted our approach and we are providing a lot of support to our clients through virtual conversations and consultations, just helping people stay centered and balanced, keeping them on their skincare routines, modifying their skincare routines, giving them a lot of nutritional recommendations as well. We're being a bit more agile and we're kind of shifting and pivoting a little bit as a business and as a brand. And we've definitely been focusing a lot more on the self-care and wellness element of things since COVID-19 started.

Katherine Amato:

Also, with clients during COVID, we've seen some common beauty mistakes that I feel we've seen very, very much has been them trying to overcompensate for not coming in and not coming in for their treatment. And they're kind of tending to their own skin and their own way and being their own aesthetician. And that's been a big issue because, like how Natasa said before, they're coming in and they're extending their issues and creating a cascade of just problems in their skin now. They're coming in now after months and months of missing their treatments.

Katherine Amato:

And some it's like, "Oh, my God, I saw you six months ago and your skin was amazing. We did so much work on it," and six months go by and it's like, we're back to square one. It's hard too. We're trying to just be their support and guide them the right way with everything. And at home, I feel like at-home tools has been a really big upcoming thing now, buying these self-care device and rollers and all these different devices that they can use at home. Trying to just really optimize as much as possible if they can't come in for their treatments.

Natasa Billeci:

And just providing education too to that point, because some of this equipment like, for example, we're big supporters of medical needling or dermal rolling, which helps to increase skin products penetration. And we've been finding that a lot of people because of this need for self-care buying inferior devices, they're not being trained on how to use the device and they're actually creating a lot more harm than good for their skin. We've been finding ourselves really emphasizing the educational element and talking about things that we don't even sell in the practice, but that we know are out there on the market and that people have been purchasing during this time period. Just teaching them actually how to use these devices safely and effectively.

Vincent Ferguson :

Would you say there's a lot of harmful products out there that if you don't know what you're doing, you can harm your skin?

Katherine Amato:

Oh, yeah.

Natasa Billeci:

Absolutely. Oh, Yeah.

Katherine Amato:

Very much so. I have clients all the time telling me, "Oh, I'm..." They go into Sephora, they go into these beauty stores and they kind of self-prescribe themselves and they rely on maybe the retail people to sell them stuff that may not be right for their skin. And it's getting to a point where it's like, I have clients come in, I just had a few clients last week, she's like, "I don't even know what skin type I have. What skin do I have?" And it's so important because educating is so crucial before you go and start prescribing yourself stuff. You have to know what you have, what you're trying to achieve, what you're trying to correct. And I think self-prescribing is a huge downfall when it comes to going out there and just stocking off your own skin pantry and buying all of these different products.

Katherine Amato:

Clients tend to also, they purchase a lot of stuff that just exfoliates their skin. They have a cleanser that has acid in it. They have a night cream that has acid. They have a scrub that has these little mini, micro beads in it. You're just exfoliating, exfoliating and when they come in, we have to work on kind of bringing their moisture and acid mantle back into play and their skin is so compromised over time. It's definitely a big beauty mistake.

Vincent Ferguson :

When you train, when you consult with your clients virtually, is there a difference in costs from them having to see you in the clinic?

Natasa Billeci:

Typically, it really depends on what they're looking to discuss. If we're doing a full consultation, normally it'll be at about a 75% price difference. It'll be 75% of the normal cost of in-office. If we're doing something that's just focused on skin and nutrition. If we're doing a more comprehensive consultation that will require them sending in photos, and they're looking to do more advanced medical treatments, such as injectables or platelet-rich plasma or vampire facials, then that's going to be typically around the same cost as in-person. And if they are coming in for treatments, there will be a subsequent consultation when they come into the office where we take photos and we really do a full on hands-on assessment.

Vincent Ferguson :

Very nice. But what recommendations would you have for anyone who's listening to this podcast and just want to know how to take care of their skin. What recommendations would you give them?

Katherine Amato:

I would definitely say simple, impactful routine. Something that is going to cause some sort of instant, not really an instant gratification, but something that's impactful such as we have our core four products at Katan and it's definitely consists of a vitamin A serum, sunscreen, a skin supplement like a facial oil or an essential fatty acid supplement and then a great cleanser. And I think those four are really going to cause an impactful routine in the skin.

Natasa Billeci:

And also from another nutritional aspect of some of the new research coming out on the hydrolyzed collagen supplements is really positive. For anyone that's really looking to help heal their skin from within, especially now, I think that a really good hydrolyzed collagen supplement would be excellent to add into their routines. And most people are really deficient in B vitamins and vitamin D, so those would be the two supplements that I would definitely bring into the mix. Of course, especially with vitamin B and any fat-soluble vitamins, you do want to make sure that you're working with a health care provider to make sure that you're taking the appropriate dosage, but these are things that you can absolutely do at home. And those two things will allow you to support your skin health from within.

Natasa Billeci:

Additionally, sleep is one of the biggest issues when it comes to skin health in particular, so getting those seven to nine hours of sleep every night, and if you can't do that, make sure to give yourself some a lot of time for catch up sleep, whether that's on the weekends, whether it's sleeping in a little bit during the week. A lot of current research on sleep deprivation shows us that it accelerates the aging process. We want to make sure that we're doing everything we can on our own to help us age very gracefully and helpfully.

Vincent Ferguson :

Hmm. Very good. Excellent advice. Now, how can my listeners find out more about the Katan Klinic?

Natasa Billeci:

They can visit us on our website at www.katanklinic.com or they can email us directly at concierge@katanklinic.com. And Katherine and I are very much engaged in getting clients set up with the consultation process, even if you want to have a quick introductory call, just to get an idea of whether or not we're the right fit for you. We're happy to do an intro call complimentary for 15 to 20 minutes with anyone that calls and references your podcast.

Vincent Ferguson :

Nice. Can we follow you on social media?

Katherine Amato:

Absolutely. @Katan Klinic.

Vincent Ferguson :

That's on Instagram and Twitter?

Natasa Billeci:

Instagram, and Facebook right now. Twitter will be down the pike and we're working on Pinterest as well. But right now we're on Instagram and Facebook.

Vincent Ferguson :

Nice. Excellent. I really appreciate this interview. Do you have any final words for my listeners. You said a lot.

Katherine Amato:

Always wash your face at night and change your pillow case every week for anyone that's suffering from maybe some acne. Drink lots of water every day. I know it's a very kind of a cliché tip, but hydrate, hydrate, hydrate so important.

Natasa Billeci:

And eat your greens, get your sleep and make sure that you incorporate some form of movement into your everyday routine. Whether that's getting up and taking a walk for 10 minutes, doing jumping jacks in place, whatever your fancy is, just make sure that you move your body.

Direct download: Episode_160_-_The_Katan_Klinic.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 9:31am EDT

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