Giving Inner City Kids the Opportunity to Learn Fencing

Moses Sistrunk Jr., also known as Coach Moses is a Harlem born enthusiast of the sport of fencing, since 1991.  His dedication to the sport began at Our Children's Foundation, Inc., a nonprofit organization that serves the Harlem community with afterschool and summer programs. It was here where he met Coach Witold Rak who was the fencing instructor at the time. Since 2012, Coach Moses has been running his own program called Inner City Fencing, which is a program that uses the sport of fencing to develop lifelong skills in young people from underrepresented and underserved communities, throughout the New York metropolitan area.

At present, he is developing a nonprofit organization called Inner City Fencing Initiative, Inc., that aims to increase the physical and financial accessibility of fencing across the New York City area.  He works with local organizations, such as my nonprofit organization, Body Sculpt of New York and others to help expose more young athletes to the sport of fencing.

Coach Moses goal is to raise the funds, to make programs such as these, consistent and reliable for students in all areas of underserved communities.

This is his way of continuing his passion and giving back to the community through the sport of fencing. And I'm thrilled to have Coach Moses on my Six Weeks of Fitness podcast. Coach, how are you today?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

I'm doing great. How about yourself?

Vince Ferguson:

I'm Good. I'm good. Thank you so much for coming on the show. But before we talk about your program, Inner City fencing, tell my listeners, where did you grow up and what was your childhood like?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Well, I actually grew up, since January of 1980, in what you call Grant Housing, right on 125th Street. So, I've been there for over... I would say 30 years right now, that I've been in that area.  I have a younger brother. I had a pretty good childhood. My father was always active. He always had us going out there doing different activities and stuff.

He'd always make sure Saturdays and Sundays, we were out there doing some type of activity. He did not want us sitting around the house. So, I was always active. And my mother basically, around the age of 11, 12 years old, actually 11 years old... I actually remember it. November 5th, 1989, on a Tuesday. Yes, I remember this. I came to Our Children's Foundation and that became a blessing to me because it was right across the street from my house and I did all types activities.

Fencing was just one of the activities I did. I used to do ballet, tap, martial arts, African drum class, sign language. So, I got exposed to all those activities at a very young age and it just exposed me to different things.

So, I was very fortunate that my mother brought me here and I've been here ever since. So, we're talking about nearly 32 years of me being exposed and working for Our Children's Foundation.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. And that's all basically in the community of Harlem, correct?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. So, where did you receive your training to become a fencer? Was it there?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Well, I learned to do fencing here, but what ended up happening was, back in 2000, I pretty much... Unfortunately, around this time I suffered a tragedy. My girlfriend had just passed away from cancer and I was there when she passed away.

And so, what ended up happening was my coach used to come and visit. And he recognized me. He was like, "Oh, hey, I remember you. You used to be that skinny runt that used to be all around fencing." So, I was like, "Yeah."

So, he remembered me and he literally brought me to his place that he had just remodeled, because he has a fencing club in Queens and he used to let me come by and just practice around.

So, I would come by, do a little fencing. And they actually had fencing here at The Foundation at the time. I was a junior counselor here at The Foundation.

So, the guy that originally was here... I don't remember his name at all... He left. And then, my boss at the time, knew my fencing so he said, "Hey, how would you like to teach fencing?" And I looked at him like, "But I don't know how to." Before I could finish the sentence, he said, "You can make 25 an hour." I will find a way how to teach fencing because I never made 25 an hour in my life.

So, and that's how I got exposed to it. And then my coach, what he would do is he would have to go to coaches conferences. Like this was all like a whole other world of fencing to me, as being an instructor.

So, and this is under the United States Fencing Coaches Association. And so, I was under them since 2006. I had no idea what I was looking at. No idea what they were talking about. He'd just kind of plop me there and he said, "Get to know your.. Get to know..." He promoted me literally. And I'm like, "Why are you promoting me? I have no idea what I'm doing."

But he saw me as a fencing instructor and that's how I got exposed to fencing on that level and teaching it and exposing it and learning more stuff about it.

Vince Ferguson:

Now, you mentioned something about your fencing training. Tell my listeners more about training and certification.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Well, my certification... I got what they call an Assistant Moniteur in 2010. And this is under the United States Fencing Coach Association. It's a non-profit organization. And basically, what they do is they realized in the past, most fence instructors, we grew up under an instructor.

And so, we were grandfathered in, as far as instruction. Now, what they're doing is they're making sure that you're getting continuing education. You get actual lessons so that you can become a better instructor.

So, they teach us how to do warm up, stretches, just things so that you make sure that you're teaching fencing in a safe environment. And they want to make sure that if you run a club that you know what the ins and outs of running the club are and how to deal with that.

So, you have different training on that. And they also have training on the different disciplines, the different weapons. So, that's what they do. And they do it every year.

Now, since COVID, they've been doing it virtually, but every year we have a training and I'm also a member of the association as well. So, I got my certification as a foil instructor back in 2012 and passed.

So, we do all practical and I would say, multiple choice. So, you do a written multiple choice and you have a practical exam. And they touch on both.

Vince Ferguson:

Which is hands-on?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes. Yes.

Vince Ferguson:

You said foil. Exactly what is that?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Foil is just a flexible weapon. The one that I use has a rubber chip. It's a practice one, and it's 110 centimeters long and very flexible. And the target, is what we call a vest target. So, no arms, no legs, just the stomach, chest and back. And the new rule is, part of your neck.

Vince Ferguson:

Oh, really? Wow. Wow. Now it sounds like you're always being upgraded. You're always training. You're getting educated more and more on fencing each year, which is great. And it also sounds like they teach you the business of fencing too.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes. Yes. When I last went to the conference in 2018, we was at the University of Las Vegas, Nevada, and for seven days, seven straight days, we were training in our discipline. So...

Vince Ferguson:

Wow.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

And yes, that's how they do it. And also for us, you would think, for a person like, you do this from nine in the morning to five in the evening, you would think that's a boring job, but for us, part of it is verbal. And part of it is us getting a group lesson from the instructors, teaching us better ways of teaching fencing to the kids or to our students, whether it be to a younger child or older adult.

Vince Ferguson:

Oh, okay. Excellent. So, you teach kids and adults. And I do know that. Let me just be perfectly honest with the listeners. I know that, because for approximately 12 to 15 years, I've known you and you participated as one of my only fencing instructors for our annual Children's Sports and Fitness expo here in New York.

And I will say, out of the 30 activities that we present at this event, fencing was by far the most popular. But what is it about fencing that makes it so popular, especially with the young people?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

I'm going to be honest with you. First of all, I didn't really know I was the most popular because I know that every time I did your program, I always had to get more equipment.

But I think what it is is, we always like, even as little kids, we like swinging swords. It's the imagination of swinging a sword at somebody. I know I did. My influencers were Star Wars and the television show Highlander. And I loved those shows. So, you're swinging the swords.

So, that's how I got into it. And the kids want to do the same thing. So, and over the years I've gotten better. So, now I've got foam swords because I know when I used to start off, I used to carry like four, five bags of equipment. So now I'm a little lighter. Now I have the foam swords.

I'm trying to invest more in those, so they can get a little taste of it and have the kids wear a mask now instead of just wearing the jackets and everything else. It does get hot when you wear those pants and jackets.

Vince Ferguson:

Yes it does.  Wow. Now, my organization focuses on young people and basically, young people in underserved populations in New York, similar to your focus, but now why have you made it your focus though, when it comes to the children and underserved population?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Because, I was one of those kids, when I learned fencing. And I didn't know. To me, I was just taking an activity. Never did I realize this would become my passion.

Like I said, my tragedy led me to my passion. So, it was a way of coping at the time. Or coping and trying to impress a girl at the same time. That didn't work out, so the fencing part turned out.

Because for me to be different, because I know a lot of people that teach fencing, they've had experience competing on a higher level. I've done sporadic competitions. But I guess, because I could relate to the kids more of, "Hey, this is what fencing is. I definitely know how you feel, because I was there too." I can share my story with them.

I'm from Grant Housing. If I say, Grant Housing, people go, "Yeah, I know what that is." But for people who don't know what Grant is, he was the 18th President of the United States and a civil war general, but that's just me because I'm a presidential fanatic.

But yes. So, I get it. And a lot of parents they cannot afford to do fencing classes. Fencing classes are very expensive. So, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing because I want them to get the opportunity I never had. I never did fencing in high school. I never knew it went to high school and I never really knew it went to college.

So, I thought this out as I was learning how to teach. How to say, "Wait a minute. Maybe I could have had this opportunity." So, I didn't know. I didn't know. So, now, I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to make sure that they get the opportunity that I didn't have.

Vince Ferguson:

Nice. A very good role model you are. I will say that, man, for sure. For sure. Now, I also understand that when it comes to scholarships, it's easier in a sense, to get a scholarship, if you're doing something like fencing, because so many people don't.

Most parents, they enroll their kids in basketball, football, soccer, but it's harder to get scholarships there, because there's so many people. But with fencing is not as many, especially of us, doing it. So, would you say that it's easier to get a scholarship for that reason?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

It is. Because a lot of the other sports are saturated. Think about it. How many basketball players are you going to get? How many football players are you going to get? You know what I mean?

So, with fencing, first of all, I feel like it's a little... I don't want to use the term being in a little mob, because no one knows about it. So, it's like you have your own little secret society. So, very few people know about it.

Because even when I carry my bag, people are like, "Oh, you play guitar?" I'm like, "No. Fence instructor." "What? Fencing?" People hear fencing, they look at me weird because they associate fencing with Caucasian people and Asian. Which they would not be wrong because in certain fencing clubs, that's what I see.

But a lot of us are coming up in the sport. So, but the opportunities are there because every time I go to the coaches conferences, guess who I bump into? Collegiate coaches. And what do they ask for?

Matter of fact, I would think about almost, I would say eight years ago, we went to our last convention. One of the ladies, she was from San Diego and she grabbed me. She's like, "Do you have any fencers? Do you have any fencers? Do you have any fencers?" I was like, "Personal space?"

Like "I don't have any kids here. So, don't hit on me." But yeah, no they're looking and even in 2018... No, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. 2019, when I went to Notre Dame and I spoke to the coach, Coach Geo, and matter of fact, they just won their NCAAs, Notre Dame.

So, him, he was like, he's trying to find fencers in house and not international. He's trying to get homegrown fencers. So, yeah because what tends to happen is people think when you do fencing you have to go to Harvard, Princeton, Yale. Yes, those are the top. But let's say you fall short for going there. You've got Notre Dame. I would say Columbia, but Columbia is right up there too.

Vince Ferguson:

Princeton?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Well, I'm talking about the ones that are not those. Like I would say, that's the argument. I know Notre Dame is one of them. Like if you can't go to one of those, go to Notre Dame. Go to Columbia.

I believe... Now, I don't want to assume right now, because I'm trying to think of colleges off the top of my head. Ohio State. We went there because I saw one of the coaches there.

So yeah, they're there. And mainly I would say, "Women, okay, this is the time period for women to get the opportunity if they're looking." Like they are looking. Like this is why I'm trying to push, as girls change and like I said, they were coming at me like, "Do you have any fencers?"

And I know some collegiate coaches. It's not hard for me to say, "Hey, I have a potential student." Now, I have to be careful with that because of the rules of the NCAA. But yeah, they're looking. Oh, I forgot about Temple University. That's another one.

Vince Ferguson:

Oh, Temple, out of Philadelphia.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yeah.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. Interesting. Interesting. Now, this sounds to me like a perfect opportunity for young people to get involved with fencing right now. And you're giving them that opportunity. But as you said, fencing is not a cheap sport. It costs money.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes.

Vince Ferguson:

So, how are you offsetting the costs of fencing for the inner city children?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

What I'm doing is because I also have a co-founder, Tico Flores-Kyle. He's been my... I call him the mouthpiece of the business because literally, usually I'll have him do what I'm doing right now. I usually don't do this. I do the inner workings of the business. So, only because it's you, I said, I'll do it.

Vince Ferguson:

Thank you, Coach. I appreciate it.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

But he's the one that goes around to different neighborhoods and talks to parents and talks to organizations and let them know about what we're doing. Because we've been in Queens at one time. Now we're back in Harlem. We do want to kind of spread out and just let people know that we're here and there are other fencing programs. But we try to make it affordable. So, we made it $75 a month.

So, that at least, you're not spending all this money for kids to do fencing. Because I've seen parents spend three, $400 for maybe a month or two. And I'm being very conservative, because this is fencing. This is expensive. Like technically, I charge 75 a month. I really should be charging $75, for every 30 minutes.

Vince Ferguson:

Every class?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Every 30 minutes.

Vince Ferguson:

Every 30 minutes?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Like me. Like me, personally giving you a lesson. $75. 30 minutes. That's what I should be charging, but I don't do that because I'm like "No, that's going to take away from the students." You know what I mean?

So, I want them to come in and see if this is something that they like. And then if they like it, then I can go ahead and tap into my resources and find ways of them doing fencing in a very affordable level. Because it's not easy. The equipment alone could cost you 500 to a thousand dollars. Easy.

Vince Ferguson:

I've seen your equipment. I've carried some of your equipment. I've carried it. I know. I know. I see. I've seen it firsthand. Professional.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

And me personally, at least for the last couple of years, I haven't really paid myself. So, I literally put it right back into the business. So, I'm constantly getting the equipment and making sure that kids have what they have. And if I have assistant coaches, I make sure they get paid first, before I do.

Because you see the work I have to do and I'm not getting any younger. So, this is the month of my birthday too. So, when the Olympics start is my birthday. July 23rd. I'll be 43.

Vince Ferguson:

Wow, isn't that something, man, but you're still a young man. Let's make this happen. So, listen, where is your company located in Harlem? Exactly where is it located?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

In the building of Our Children's Foundation, which is at 527 West 125th Street. We're located on the second floor. So yeah, we're on the second floor. So, people just buzz in or just give me a call and I just come down and let you in.

Vince Ferguson:

Okay. And you're looking for more kids right now. Am I correct?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes. Yes. Because a lot of people don't know, like the parents, I have 10 clients right now and a lot of them say, "You've been teaching fencing here all this time?" I'm like, "Yes." No one knows I'm in here.

Vince Ferguson:

Yeah. Best kept secret. Isn't that something? What are some of the many benefits that young people can expect to experience while learning fencing at your school?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Well, I only say this because I could draw from my experience. You really learn about yourself. You learn about your offensive or defensive. I realize now as I'm a little bit older, it depends on the situation. So, when I was younger, I was defensive. So, I would wait for the person to come at me, see what they do and then I would respond. So, that's one. Two, you will definitely learn different languages.

Vince Ferguson:

Languages? Languages? Really?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Because fencing is only two languages, English and French. So, you have to know a little bit of French.

Vince Ferguson:

Nice. I didn't know that.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

So, when I teach the kids, I'll tell them how to say things in English. And then I'll tell them how to say things in French. So, if you don't know what they're talking about, how would you know? And the other thing is you will learn are different measurements. We do the Avoirdupois system, which is pounds and ounces. And of course, with metric system, you have to learn meters, kilometers, kilograms. So, you're going to learn how to do that.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

And you're going to learn some geometry too, because in my class you will learn how to make a fencing strip and use measurements.

Vince Ferguson:

Really?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yep. That's what I teach in my class. They have to learn that. So, that's part of the class. So, what I do is... Because I know other classes teach differently. A lot of them are geared more towards competition. Great. That's what you should do.

I'm more about, "Hey, let's see if you like this first, okay? And if you're serious, then I'll gear you towards competition." Because what happens is they'll go to a club that's in the competition. Kids want to do it. It's expensive. Then they're like, "I don't like this no more." Then they leave.

Vince Ferguson:

Right. Wow.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

So my thing is, "No, I'm going to do the fun part. Come to me. We'll do the fun part. I'm going to break everything up. And then if you feel that you want to do this seriously, then that's a whole nother thing on the side where we can do, and we'll focus on that."

Vince Ferguson:

Sure. Wow. Nice. Nice. Now, there's so much I could ask, but we don't have a lot of time, but let me ask you this. Is fencing a great way to keep fit? Obesity is a major issue today among children.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes, it is. Literally, if it wasn't for fencing, I would have been 300 pounds a long time ago. I would have gotten here quicker, but it is a great way. I also like this. You're not thinking about the workout when you're fencing. You're thinking about, "How can I get my point?" You don't think about it.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

It's a great leg workout, great core workout. Great upper body workout. I would say more of a leg workout because you're doing a lot of lunges.

Vince Ferguson:

A lot of lunges?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes. A whole lot of lunges. So, yeah, but it's not just about swinging a sword either, because a lot of kids, when they come in, they think, "Oh, I'll just swing a sword." Nope. That's how you get scored on real quick. So.

Vince Ferguson:

There's a lot to it, yes. Look, I've seen you in action. I've seen how the kids' faces light up and the parents too. And they always want to know where can they go to take their kids to continue fencing? And that's so important that you have a place where they can go. That's so important, but what about nutrition? Do you touch on that? Is that important to a fencer?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes, it is. Even Tim Morehouse, he's one of the premier fencers. And what ended up happening with him was, even as a fencer, he's still eating McDonald's. He's eating junk food and it wasn't until... I think it wasn't until 2012, when I think when he was doing fencing he changed his diet, slendered down and he became better. And I think he became a silver medalist at that time, as a team in Sabre.

And I know me personally, because I know what happened with me and I'll definitely get into this. A lot of people assume because I teach fencing that I always keep in shape. But for years, I really wasn't doing that. I wasn't participating with the kids, but then I had really let myself go. I went from when I first started from 170 to as heavy as 270.

Vince Ferguson:

That's a hundred pounds heavier.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yeah, I was a hundred pounds heavier. This was a matter of, I would definitely say 15 years. No, actually 17 years and what ended up happening was this was during the pandemic where I ended up going to the hospital and found out that I was a Type II diabetic. I'm walking around being a Type II diabetic and didn't know for three years. They just now told me after I went to the hospital and I didn't take that very well. I really didn't. That just blew my mind. So I said, "Nope." But they did tell me my condition was because of weight.

Vince Ferguson:

Weight?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yeah, weight. Purely weight. My neurologist told me. He said, "I'm not checking your foot." He said "Lose the weight, then I'll check your foot." He literally really told me that. My dietician said, "It's the weight." And my primary care doctor said, "It's your weight." So, from November to now, I've lost, I would say 44 pounds, because I'm 226 now.

Vince Ferguson:

Congratulations on that. You took action.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yeah. I was not playing. That scared me. That scared me and I will never be the same now. So, I drink more water now. I definitely incorporate a lot of fruits and vegetables because I didn't do that before. I do eat meat, but I cut down on a lot of the meat consumption.

Vince Ferguson:

So, you changed your eating habits. You changed your nutrition. And would you say that... Do you eat late at night or did you stop doing that, as well?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

If I eat late at night, it would be a smoothie or something very healthy. Like it has to be something very light if I eat at night. But that has been put to a halt because I realize that's why my sugar levels is going up. I was eating late at night.

Vince Ferguson:

I see, just making those subtle changes, makes all the difference. And now, you're doing your fencing, but you're slimmer now and you feel better as a result. And that's what children can look forward to, as well, which is great.

And you are now, you're more of a role model because now you're looking more the part, not just giving instruction, but you're looking more like you're athletic.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes, yes. Like I said, my goal is... And this is what I like about fencing also. It doesn't stop when you're young. I can compete at 40, 50, 60, 70, 80.

Vince Ferguson:

Compete?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes. You can compete at those ages.

Vince Ferguson:

Now that, I didn't know. Wow.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes. So, yes sir, you can compete in fencing too. So, you're not too old to do it.

Vince Ferguson:

Sign me up.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yeah. That's what I like about it. I could go out there... Right now, I have an Olympian named Ivan Lee. He's a former Olympian and he's out there competing now. I think he got first place just recently. So, he just hit 40. Just hit 40. Yeah.

Vince Ferguson:

Just hit 40?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yeah.

Vince Ferguson:

And that's a African-American, right?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yeah, yeah.

Vince Ferguson:

That's so impressive, man. You can do this. Man, this is beautiful. Now, where can parents find out more about Inner City Fencing and how can they contact you?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Well, right now, they can contact me on my website, Inner City Fencing.org, or www.innercityfencing.org. And they can check out the website. Mostly my schedules are there and the pricing and everything.

Or they can come to me directly at Our Children's Foundation. I'm usually there Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Right now, we're doing the summer schedule. So, I'm here from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. So, and that will last until September 10th. So, then the schedule is going to change, but I'm usually here Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.

Vince Ferguson:

Perfect. Is there anything else that we didn't touch on, that you want to share before I let you go?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

I would say that I do a little bit of this and it's still ongoing, but I am what they call a cosplayer. And I don't know people know what cosplaying is, but you're costume playing.

So, I also go to comic book conventions, upstate New York, and I promote fencing and that, and I do a little bit of amateur stage combat, basically. So, I used to do that with two groups, with dealing with Star Wars for about six years.

So, I'm developing that class right now. It's not something I'm pushing at the moment, but I'm just putting it out there that I do do it, because I tend to meet when I go to these conventions and I tell them I'm a fencer, they're like, "Oh, I want to do fencing."

And then when I go to fencing and I tell them, I do cosplaying, "Oh, I want to be a cosplayer." And I'm just like, "Oh, I've got two different goals that would have come together, but they can't do it because fencers have to compete on the same day that cost players do their stuff at the conventions."

Vince Ferguson:

Wow. Wouldn't you know?

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

So basically, you have to give up one to do it.

Vince Ferguson:

One for the other.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

Yes. So, I kind of gave up, not gave up. I didn't give it up. I'm just not competing right now. So, I'm doing a little bit more cosplaying, but at the same time, I am still instructing. But when I compete, I'm going to have to put it into my schedule. So, yeah.

Vince Ferguson:

Yes. I hear you. You got to do what you got to do. Do this is great. This is great, Coach. Listen, Coach Moses Sistrunk, on behalf of Body Sculpt of New York and Six Weeks of Fitness, I truly want to thank you for coming on my show today.

Coach Moses Sistrunk:

No, thank you. It was a pleasure.

Vince Ferguson:

And to my listeners, I truly hope this program was informative and encouraging and inspiring, and that you will continue tuning in to our Six Weeks of Fitness podcast. And if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for the show, please leave them on my Six Weeks to Fitness [e-mail] or email me at vinceatsixweeks.com. And don't forget to subscribe, so you don't miss any future episodes.